"Just wondering about the type of folks who go for NYCC ""Club Rides"". I looked through the Acrobat guide published on this site, and on one hand, I am impressed with how thorough your guidelines seem to be. On the other hand, I am left with the distinct feeling that there is no room for punks like me -- a 20something who genuinely enjoys cycling, rides all around town, but is somewhat new to it as a ""serious sport.""
Will I be rejected by the group for not having the latest gear? For preferring jeans-over-silk-thermal-underwear in the Winter, versus the official High Tech Biker's Pants?
And I ride a mountain bike with a big heavy Kryptonite lock around my body. Obviously, your Acrobat guide is merely an outline, but I must admit I was curious about where it said, under ""Types of Bikes"", ""Mountain Bikes: NO"". Well, a mountain bike's what I've got, and I've always felt pretty good about that. Now you've got me wondering, what's wrong with a mountain bike? Can I not go on club rides, for some reason, with my mountain bike?
Not trying to offend anyone here, but I get the impression that the NYCC is for serious-minded, 30+ riders with the kind of disposable income that lets them keep up with the latest gear. Fair enough, I suppose. But what I'm wondering is, would a comparably ""scrappy"" rider, such as myself (who admires ragtag bike messengers and Lance in equal measure), have any place amongst you? Who are you guys, anyway??
In any case, it's the perfect weather for riding these next few days, so happy biking adventures to you all.
d."
enthusiasts, or snoots?
"Hey D.,
If you're a strong enough rider to keep up with the group on your mountain bike, you won't be discriminated against. But I would beg you to use slicks, so the ""whirrrrrr"" of your tires won't disturb our quiet weekend jaunt! In fact, one of the club's stronger members rides all spring on a mtb. I would probably leave the Krypto chain at home, though, as we usually keep the bikes in view, and ""The Warriors""-like confrontations with the Westchester Cycle Club have been kept to a minimum this year. ;)
As far as whether we're snoots or enthusiasts, I'd say it takes all kinds... I'd say on most rides, you'll have a couple of people with the carbon fibre/titanium/ unobtanium/helium-gas-filled Mer7in, a couple of people on older roadbikes, and most everybody somewhere in between. I'm restoring a Moulton, and hope to have that on club rides next season.
No one will question your choice of pants, but cycling shorts do make the nether regions happy. In short, do the 4-lap Park Drive diagnostic, and if your pace is about 1:30 or less, show up for a B-ride (usually 17 on the flats, about 14.5 mph total average), and enjoy riding with good company.
And wear a helmet, as it's required on club rides.
Oh, and I am 28, and ride a lugged steel bike. By ""serious cyclist"" standards, it was cheap. But if I tell my neighbor how much I spent on a bike, I bet he'd think I was nuts.
Cheers,
- Christian
"
"Christian Edstrom ([email protected]) wrote:
""And wear a helmet, as it's required on club rides.""
Just like the info on Mountain bikes is incorrect (it's doubtful that anyone will give you a hard time for showing up on one as long as you choose the right ride -- don't showoff off the front and don't expect us to wait for you if your mountain bike is slowing you down), so is the above info on helmets. The NYCC does not have a mandatory helmet rule. They trust you'll use your best judgement, although they allow individual leaders to require one in their listings if they are so inclined.
Ride safely.
"
I stand corrected. I suppose my excuse is that 100% of the riders I've ridden with on the 20+ club rides I've been on have worn helmets.
Cheers,
- Christian
"You want to hear a real story. I was once a club member until I had this incidence in which I was literally outcasted by some of the popular members. They even threatened me if I showed up to ride with them. They thought I didn't know how to ride a bike and could never be with the ""A"" group. You know what? I am a cat4 racer now, after 1 year of serious training and 1 year of racing. Last race I did was in Jamestown RI. Dude, drop these guys with your mountain bike and teach them a lesson of humility. Go ride with them. Hopfully, you will turn out as good as me or better."
Just because you are a Cat 4 racer doesn't mean you know how to ride safely in a group. Have you had paceline training? Do you hang out to the left and block traffic? Are you riding an even-paced straight line? Are you braking when in a paceline without warning others? When you are are out front do you lead the ride around hazzards and call them out? Do you look back and announce when you fall off the front? Do you believe everybody who reaches a position they are in are fully qualified to assume all responsibilies of that position? Do you believe that all Cat 4 racers are flawless? If you get to Cat 3 what do you think your opinions of Cat 4s will be? Do you believe we all make mistakes?
Let's just say that there are old riders and bold riders. But there are no old bold riders. Speaking for those who ride with me at NYCC, accidents will happen but we do our best to keep them to a minimum by being cautious and safe riding is the first step. I have never been on a ride where other riders have labled another rider unsafe without a good reason.
"Just because you are a Cat 4 racer doesn't mean you know how to ride safely in a group?
Substitute ""SIG graduate"" for Cat 4, and you're right on target.
Actually, if Victor's managed to finish a full season of racing intact, he's developed way more ""group riding skills"" than he'd ever pick up on your ""A"" 19 rides. Or did you think he's strictly a time trial specialist?
Quite amusing that even though the bar for A ridership has been lowered ridiculously over the years, the elitist attitude remains the same. I guess since they don't go fast anymore, they now reserve their bragging for how ""skilled"" their riding is.
And before anyone gets on his case for disguising his identity, try typing ""Victor Chan"" in the Author box, and see what happens. He's not ALLOWED to post under his own name!
And yes, Virginia, there are plenty of old, bold riders. But you won't be seeing them on any club rides, not any more..."
i've seen sig graduates that can't hold a line...and i've raced with guys who ride like squirrels (slamming their brakes in the pack, overlapping wheels during sprints and climbs, bumping into everyone around turns, etc.).
there's no guarantee that graduating the sig or racing for one year will make someone a more skilled rider but it sure can't make things worse.
:)
don (a former inline/ice racer and uscf cat3...who never did the sig)
"Hey Rooftop:
If you were looking for an example of a ""snoot"" you couldn't ask for better than ""Skill or be skilled."" Fortunately for all of us, it seems he/she doesn't ride with the club anymore so we don't have to put up with their attitude. You will however see plenty of old, bold riders on club rides, you'll even see some of them leading SIG rides.
Did you ever notice, those who post with the most attitude are almost always too afraid to post under their real name? Kinda' makes you wonder doesn't it."
"For men, when they first start racing they are ""Category 5"" (women start at 4). There's no test, no skill set, no requirements to be mastered to obtain your license. Just $35 bucks for the year and, ta-daa, you're a racer.
(though to race on the road you must wear a helmet, sleeves and use a roadbike)
To become a ""Cat 4"":
From the USCF rulebook:
""5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races.""
that's all there is to it. And guess what, the qualifying races need only be 15 miles long and have a minimum of 10 riders."
"And when or if Victor does upgrade to Cat 3, he'll soon find out how tolerant, err um make that intolerant and outspoken and physical (sharp elbows) the group will be of poor bike handling skills.
Dare I guess it will be allot less civil than that found on a club ride and with good reason. In racing you take risks (hopefully calculated and not bone-headed ones) which of course is a trade-off for safety. This and the racing aspect is not so with NYCC group rides. Again as others have stated, that's what CRCA is for and well suited at that.
Somehow this beyond Victor's comprehension as well as any self acknowledgement of his shortcomings. The last club ride he did, he got quite a constructive tongue lashing from a female rider (rightly so) about such. His response was silence, not a word spoken - then or for the entire ride. If I'm not mistaken, this very personable female is a Cat 2 racer who still does club rides and socialize with its members.
His silence more of the same for the other club rides I and others did with him. I don't recall him really making much of an effort, if any to reach out and be sociable with other club members. How can one criticize others for being snobbish when no effort has been made on your part? Perhaps those ""other"" folks have the same insecurities and reluctance as you.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that. I'm sure cycling attracts more introverts than the general population (including myself). I could be wrong, but is riding with the club is a social activity and what it’s primarily about.
That said, his posts are very telling. Contrast his constant trash-talking on-line behavior with his meekness in person is quite alarming. Whether it is Mr. Jeckyll or Dr. Hyde - such behavior is very anti-social.
Bike handling skills and prowess aside, what team will want to pick up such an anti-social reckloose? I reckon one will not get very far with a racing career without a team.
I think bicycling, bikes handling skills, message board posts, being a Verizon van crash test dummy, etc. are just symptoms of a much greater and fundamental personal problem.
That's just my 2 cents. Rant mode off.
Cheers,
Peter
"
Oh yeah, just like your Sunday club rides. :-) Here are the race listing for 2003 and will be for 2004.
http://www.racelistings.com/races/road/atlantic/
Go for it, you or anyone else.
"Good morning Mr. or Ms. Holler,
I'd like to (oficially) welcome you to the NYCC, regardless of what kind of pants you wear and what kind of bike you're riding.
The club (and the typical ride) is made up of all kinds of people, of all ages, riding all kinds of bikes (and all kinds of tires,) wearing all kinds of clothing.
The club rates rides based on style, from ""recrational"" (C) to ""performance"" (A) and ""in between"" (B.) C rides (and to a lesser extent, B rides) are a mix of people and bikes, from 10-speeds and inexpensive MTBs to the fancier stuff. People are out to have fun, eat and socialize. People may compare notes about gear or give advice, but I find it rare that anyone says something stupid. (You will typically see more attention to gear on the A rides.)
At club meetings and events you'll find people socializing across ride styles, and talking about things other than cycling as well.
I invite you to ride with us. For your first time, join a ""C"" ride (If you're unsure about your ability to do the mileage, pick a ride that stays in the city.) Knobbies are fine. Wear whatever pants you wish. (As a practical matter, we typically leave the city and either picnic together or stop at a diner with view of our bikes. We use lightweight locks, if anything.) Introduce yourself to the leader (it may be me.) I believe that you'll be pleasantly surprised at how friendly we can be.
Best regards,
Isaac Brumer
""C"" Rides Coordinator, NYCC"
"Isaac wrote:
(and all kinds of tire)
In case it wasn't totally obvious, I should add that my comment about the ""whirr"" of the knobby tires was meant entirely as a joke. Please join us on a ride, regardless of tire choice.
Cheers,
- Christian"
Mountain bikes aren't appropriate for all NYCC rides, especially those involving pacelines.*
Choice of equipment concerns more serious issues than yuppie aesthetics. Will your bike interfere with the group's teamwork? Is it well-maintained so the group doesn't have to sit around and wait for you to change three flats in a row (presuming you have brought tubes), or jerry-rig your broken spoke, or risk injury when your equipment breaks or fails? Can you go the distance on your heavy bike, and if not, are there bailouts along the route for you to get home?
Riding all over the city where there are cabs and subways stops galore is different from riding miles out in the countryside where there is not even cell phone reception. Not to mention that group rides require specific bike handling and communication skills for the safety and comfort of all riders. The club runs a free training program in March-May to teach these skills.
Contact the ride leader in advance to find out if your bike is appropriate and what you need to do to prepare. Does the ride leader has a no-drop policy? If not, make sure you have a map and can get home on your own if dropped. A friendly, nonjudgmental attitude is also a plus, since you're likely to be riding with at least a few upper-income weenies over the untrustworthy age of 30.
In fact, be prepared to meet all kinds of people in this club. That's what some of us like most about it. But on the level of equipment, yes, a certain conformity is needed, at least for the high-performance rides.
And be warned that many people who join the club with MTBs and hybrids (recumbents aren't allowed) end up buying a road bike within a year. That's usually thanks to the guidance of some dude or chick in High Tech Bike Shorts who can tell them how to get the most for their money, at whatever level.
*Unless you're John Z and are pulling the whole way, and no one can catch you to tell you to go home. And I guess we now have to worry about Chuck as well.
we wouldnt want to ride with you weenies anyhow...
I have nothing against them, honest. Some of my best friends ride them. But I have never seen one on an NYCC ride and thought that was a matter of policy.
Please, Mike, don't call out the RADL (Recumbent Antidiscrimination League) just yet. At least wait until a clear pattern of abuse is established.
gootcha..lol
"CW:
""Chick"" ??? Tu??
Would have never thought you would use that term."
A.D. (his actual initials) is a Ph. D. in biology and physics, an eminent professor at Rockefeller and Columbia and very active politically.
He showed up on a ride looking every bit like the nerd I've just described. Long pants. A bike rack and bags on the back of his clunky, heavy bike. A computer in one of the bags. Thick tires. You've never seen such a dorky looking rider.
Meanwhile, stroke for stroke, he was right alongside those of us with drilled out titanium everything and ultra-thises-and-thats. I mean stroke for stroke.
He is the most memorable person I've ridden with, and a wonderful, brilliant conversationalist.
Alas, that was his one and only ride with the club. I don't think he was put off by us; we just weren't...oh, hell, I don't know what.
But I remain in contact with him.
Hey Rooftop,
I am speaking as someone who has been there and done that. You should always consider racing to actualize your cycling potential. When I was your age, I rode around too. Just ridding around. My bike didn't even fit me back then. Later on, college work consumed my time. I was still ridding though. After I graduated, I needed some sort of directions. I have some extra money and got into cycling. Bought my first expensive ($900) road bike and to learn everything there is to learn about bicycle mechanic. I was already ridding in the big ring back then. :-) Then, I joined this club. After a half the season with this club, I noticed I am a much stronger rider than most folks here. Not long after, I left this club and to pursue my racing potential. Now, a cat4 racer. It wasn't easy if you have a full time job and ridding close to 200 miles a week. I probably have another 10 years of racing left until I am 40.
If you start early, you may be a cat1 by the age of 27 or 28. What's a cat 1? Cat1 are the guys who normally race with some of the top names in cycling in some of the major domestic races. They all started as cat 5 too. After cat 1, you are more or less stucked there until you turn pro.
"Tell that John of yours to begin racing cat5. That's how things are. The cat1 and cat2 and the pro won't come to his club and to race him. Tell him that and tell him good. He can fancy himself racing but he ain't cutting it. Tell him to race or shut up. You too. Get it. What goes around, comes around. Yeah, you too. ""Many facets of racing."" Hahahahaha.........."
Dearest Anthony (aka Cat Stevens, et al.),
Haven't heard from you for some time! I thought maybe the idea that your ongoing anonymous attacks on me would get you kicked out of the club might turn your repressed aggressions elsewhere. But I guess that when you've got so much unexpressed rage bottled up inside you, well, sooner or later, sooner or later it's got to come out--right?
Let's see, you've been admiring me for over a year now, isn't it? And don't think I haven't been saving your little love notes. They mean so much to me, and I can't wait to share them with others!
Anthony, please don't hide your feelings from me any longer--come out into the light--open your heart--my own!
"That's right Woody (""Ms. A-Rider Wannabee""),
I love you so much that it makes me soil my cycling shorts!
Don't know ANTHONY dONATO but I'm sure that everyone can relate to how he feels about you!!
"
Hello Rooftop,
Yes, just find a C ride that strikes you and go for it. If someone is a snoot - I think there may be a couple - well, at least you find them out. The heck with them.
I am of the opinion that the more anyone rides, the better he or she gets. Even if you do not want to be a hammer-headed rider, just the time on the bike, turning the pedals, will get you going in a more comfortable, confident manner. Dress as you see fit - but for the weather. Ride what bike you like - but a mechanically sound one. Ride how you like - but safely.
MAX PAYNE - ah, Victor! Have you been lurking? Don't say hello on your Orbea, eh?!? Why, I ought'a .... Cat 4??? OMG. Let me guess - unattached. I'm just a Cat 7 myself - I have the Cat 7 tattoo on my right calf. Next year?
"Listen John. How old are you now??? Mid 30s??? You only have maybe 5 years of racing left, if train right. If younger, maybe another 8 years. You should get start soon. You will get a whole new perspective on cycling as a sport, not a hobby. Is all in the training, not the bike. Is all about how you read the field. How you speculate when attacks take place. How you position yourself in the pack when the time to catch the breakaway train. Importantly, how you undertand and relentlessly pushing your body to its limit and hopefully you can do the same thing the next day or the next week. This club can't prepare you for racing. They will hold you back. Look at them. Hammering during the off season when every single racer is doing the base miles. Save your hammering and hard effort in the race. You have to coach yourself, go read Joe Friel's ""Cyclist's Training Bible."" If you have the money, hire a coach. You don't need a team just to race cat 5. If you need one, you ain't make it to cat4.
Racing is fun. You see all the crowds cheering for you. Kids screaming at you. Holding a pace line at 33 mph. Making a 90 degree turn at 26 mph while you are only 3 inches away next to another rider. Avoiding crashes because you were at the right time and the right place. Taking the top 5th in a bunch sprint while your heart rate shot up to 200 bpm. How about attempting to bridge a 600m gap doing 30+ mph while no one in the field going along with you (heroic)? You will never get this in your club rides."
"I don't need your advice, which of course is dated. Joe Friel's ""Cyclist's Training Bible"" was great 15 years ago, but anyone serious now trains via power not by heart rate, and ""Cyclist's Training Bible"" only make cursory mention of power-based training. Your fascination with heart rate highlights your own ignorance.
There are many facets to bicycle racing, outside seven laps of Prospect Park. Come test your mettle on June 19th next year up at Whiteface Mountain, a race I started. I doubt you will show because people of your ilk are loathe to participate in any event with a clock.
I have my own methods of preparing for this and similar races. Included are long club rides. Your contempt for such rides and those who ride them only serves to underscores your own insecurity and self-loathing. Obviously, the weak little body you were born with can't produce enough power to match your ambition, so you are jealous of the more naturally gifted, some of whom don't need a Cat rating to secure their self-esteem as a cyclist."
Don't even bother trying to save face. Read and cry. Hope you will find some good use with your $2000 SRAM Power crank. If you are not even a cat5, how do you suppose to compete with the cat 3 and up? To even become a pro???
http://www.kissena.info/davescorner/winter2003.html
"...and anyone who says training by heart rate ""isn't the correct way"" to train is waayyy off base.
here's a (15 year old) book that i'm not sure is still in print but anyone who's interested in heart rate training should look for it:
Training Lactate Pulse-Rate
(By Peter G.J.M. Janssen)
ISBN: 952-90066-8-3
Printed in Oy Liitto 1989 Oulu Finland
Publisher: Polar Electro Oy
(C) 1987 Peter G.J.M. Janssen
i haven't read peter's new book but from the reviews it seems to expand on his first book:
Lactate Threshold Training
ISBN: 0736037551
Publisher: Human Kinetics (T); (May 2001)
:)
don"
I stand by what I said. Heart-rate based training is dated and inaccurate. Trust me, one ride with a power meter and you will be enlighted. More to come...
I stand by what I wrote. Heart-rate based training is dated and inaccurate. Trust me, one ride with a power meter and you will be enlighted. More to come...
"...which is better for training? heart rate or power meter? if peter could set up a poll, that would be great. until then, here's a url for a new thread (including a poll) i posted over at cycling forums:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56060
ps, i'll start another poll over at the speed skating and running forums to see what they think of people buying into these sport-specific training gadgets.
(gotta love vBulletin)
:)
don"
I could not care less about a poll. How could anyone who has not ridden with both have an informed opinion? Why don't you ask the three others who joined me in the Hillier than Thou race about the effectiveness of a power meter. You think Lance's Armstrong's training is still heart rate based? Ullrich or any other elite? Please.
This is not another gimmick here, but the most accurate, best way for a cyclist to train, ride and race, regardless of level. Yes, cost is currently an issue, the only issue. If you want to maximize your potential, a power meter is worth every penny. So stop being so inanely retro; if somebody gave you a power meter, you would throw away heart your heart rate monitor, or if your are truly smart, relegate it to its proper use: a systemic measure of overall stress indicative of overtraining.
if lance put whipped cream on a t*u*r*d you would probably push that on eveyrone as the latest and greatest athletic training suppliment as well, wouldn't you?
let's see you strap a power meter onto a pair of running shoes...or miller crit skates. hmm...i guess you could strap one to your armpit so you can measure power output while doing laps in the pool.
don't knock what's been the standard training tool for the vast majority of athletes out there (not just cyclists). cycling isn't the only form of training some of us use to get back into shape.
;)
don
"Don;
For a technologist such as yourself, why are you so resistant to technological advances? I am not talking here about the latest power bar, and I don't buy Lance's books. Read below, from ""The Road Cyclist's Guide To Training By Power"" By Charles Howe:
""...cyclists have at times taken their cue from distance runners in adopting pacing guidelines to gauge intensity for flat-terrain workouts. The concept of goal pace and date pace was borrowed from perhaps its most widely known advocate, University of Oregon coach Bill Dellinger. This approach may have some reliability at a given velodrome, so long as temperatures do not vary significantly and the air is calm, but is unlikely to be useful on the road, even under ideal conditions, with the possible exception of a standard (and sufficiently steep) uphill course.
The 'paradigm' for measuring exercise intensity was changed in the mid-1980s, when accurate, reliable, and affordable HRMs the size of a wristwatch began to reach the consumer market. As becomes apparent when correlated with power, however, heart rate is limited not only by its slow response to changes in power, but also since it can vary widely for a given wattage due to physiological and environmental factors.
Indeed, had power meters preceded HRMs, the latter might have never been marketed and sold as a separate device...""
The issue is simply cost, and I acknowledged this as the limiting factor to the power meter's current widespread use. For some, the cost benefit is worth the entry price, for others, it is not. There is no question as to best. Cyclists are lucky, we have an independent way to objectively measure our real efforts; runners and swimmers do not. I agree that at $800, the current entry-level cost for a power meter may not be worth the benefit to most; if they could be sold for $100, you would be the first convert."
"technologist? fighting words! i'm a mac user! ;)
i checked the results for the 2003 Whiteface Mountain Uphill Bike Race (you know, the race you started and the race you keep referring to as the big training test). you placed 49th out of 51 finishers (results don't mean anything to me...it's the participation that counts). lemme guess...you beat the 50th and 51st place racers because they trained with ""dated and inaccurate"" heart rate monitors? ;D
ok, i'm running to the store now to pick up my own person cutting edge, modern, accurate and ultracool power meter. hmmm...did you by chance post instructions on how to strap that baby onto my running shoes, skates or armpits (for indoor pool power testing)? maybe i missed it.
i would pick up every book i can find on power meter training but after such a huge investment, i'll need to save my pennies for the next gadget that comes along. can we continue this thread so i can save all your posts? i figure i'll have complete books before too long.
;)
don"
Oh oh oh..........here is my result using outdated training method.
http://www.jamestownri.com/rotary/race/results2003.htm
I could have placed 3 more positions higher if I have contested for the sprint. There was no point because I was already below the 10th place.
in a field of Cat5s.
Somehow I'm not impressed, although I'm sure you'd want me to be.
I wouldn't be shooting my mouth off if I were you.
So, 19th place out of 30 riders. What's the problem???? :-) I can tell you I placed 5th (gold medal) in a 25+ riders race in Prospect Park. Big deal. The race was slower. Less harder. Let's see YOUR result. :-)
"Don wrote: you placed 49th out of 51 finishers (results don't mean anything to me...it's the participation that counts).
Try scrolling down to the bottom of the page, if your Mac will permit you to do so.
As far as John's math goes, his training as an engineer serves him well. When I asked him how long it would take me to climb Whiteface (during a trip several weeks prior to the race), he said, ""Take your best time up Bear Mountain, triple it, and subtract 10%."" That would have been 1 hour 30 minutes. My actual time? 1 hour 24 minutes.
I have found John's expertise to be useful on many occasions, almost mysterious. Of course it's not: it's science.
"
"I don't think so. There is no way in hell 200+ riders all started the same time!!!! That will be a nightmare for the organizers. They were all separated by groups and with maybe few minutes apart. His was obviously the first 53 riders.
The result does not say much given that ........... Why do we care? The course is too short to be qualified as a USCF sanctioned race lenght. Too many mixed riders (ability). I spoke to another cat4 who did his climb and he finished it in 46 minutes. Obviously, the rest of the field is all recreational cyclists. Sure, you beat them all. :-) Hell, this is like June, man. Doesn't have other recent ""races"" to brag about???"
"Must have been a strong Cat 4 as the winning time was 47'10"". You and Don must have gone to the same University."
"i SWEAR it wasn't there when i first checked the page!!! 8-o
sorry about that, john. :) anyway, i still disagree with your comment regarding heart rate monitors being ""dated and inaccurate"". as an engineer, i guess you can flood this thread with all kinds of neat information, quotes and comparisons. great. i'll continue to use my heart rate monitor while i ride...and while i run...and while i skate.
(swimming is out of the quesion because i can't swim, and even if i could, you still haven't told me how to strap that power meter to my armpit so i can get accurate measurements while i swim).
ps, carol, please don't make such condescending remarks to my macintosh...otherwise you'll upset it and it won't boot...then i'll be forced to use my pc. ;) <-- winkie face!!!
cockroach"
"Don;
First things first. My original comment was targeted at someone far more obnoxious than either you or I, who interjected himself into this thread (""enthusiasts, or snoots? I guess we answered this question) and suggested I read ""The Bicyclist Training Bible."" Outside the context of my comment to this particular and perculiar person, I do agree with you. Heart rate monitors are better than nothing, and good for most. ""Dated"" technology, a bit of hyperbole but true. ""Useless,"" not, especially if you understand its limitations.
Did a power meter help me on Whiteface? Absolutely. It enabled me to pace myself to a respectable time in a difficult race (Cat4MaxPayne, you are welcome to try it one day. I can even get you a free entry). I need to shave 6 minutes off my time for a top 10 finish in this race; 3 minutes will get me a top 20 finish. Real simple goal, hard to achieve, but this important to me and I am willing to put in the effort and expense. Others aren't and this is fine. All that counts is the sport, at whatever level. To me, the Tour de Bronx for a family is as valid of an achievement as is the Tour de France for Lance."
15 pounds and six years ago i was a pretty good climber myself. :) if it weren't for my close friend alan cohen, i would have wore the crown on at least two or three devil's kitchen climbs (alan used a tripple...i used a 39x26 the first year and a 39x23 the second year [being a former messenger able to do trackstands is a plus]).
just a recap, i train(ed) on ice (short track), skates (10k+50k races), running (i suck but my times for 10k races are respectible) and bike (got up to cat3). then i broke my ankle on the ice and was forced into retirement (two surgeries, a plate and four screws implanted and later removed). since then i've lost touch with many of my sport friends (although my true friends always kept in touch...herb dershowitz, bob moulder, jeff vogel, etc.).
now that my ankle feels better (i can finally pull up on my pedal; clamp down my skates and run on the asphalt), i'm determined to get back into shape. this is where i get passionate about heart rate monitors. ok, so they're not entirely accurate (i never said they were). back in '79 when i was running 10k races in the 101st airborne, the only heart rate monitors we had were our fingers pressed against our throats (after stopping...now THAT'S silly...but it was all we had).
i'm involved in tech stuff but mainly as a macsysadmin (ok, you pc guys, get your laughs now while you can
not saying you're being overly aggressive with the power meter stuff, but you did slam heart rate monitors...without which i could never say that in all the years i've trained, raced and (now) recovered, i have never had a sports injury due to overuse. nada. zilch.
in that respect, i consider heart rate monitors to be extremely useful to anyone serious about sport. not just biking, but all sport. well, maybe not all sport...i didn't wear a heart rate monitor when i won the tristate tour straight pool championship in 2001.
thanks for the truce...i really want to rejoin the club and be able to ride with friends again. i have noticed some folks who i used to TROUNCE when i was in shape seem to be taking offense to my showing up again. my response to them is...go ahead and have your fun dropping me now while you can.
;)
don
Dude;
There were 249 entrants, most of whom are among the best hillclimbers in the North East. This is gthe last post for me, its not worth my time getting into arguements with idiots who can't or won't check the facts.
You and Victor are in a Catagory all amongst yourselves. I hope you are proud.
No, you are the one in your own world. We, like all other racers in the US, follow the same rules and upgrade and racing requirements that the pros went through years before. We don't fool ourselves. You are the one that needs a reality check.
