Sorry everyone, the printed bulletin is once again late in arriving. As you can tell from the fact that the PDF version was posted 2 weeks ago, the problems are downstream from the NYCC itself and are somewhat beyond our control i.e., the mailing house and the post office. None the less, members have every right to expect the paper bulletin to arrive on time and once again it has not happened. I will continue to try my best to resolve these problems.
Thank you for your patience.
Broken Record
Mon, 09/08/2003 - 9:41am
Mon, 09/08/2003 - 4:19pm
#1
Broken Record
Like USPS, for better performance, next time use Shimano. What no campy v. shimano debate?!! Whoops, sorry, wrong thread.
Peter
(Tongue planted firmly in cheek, btw)
Mon, 09/08/2003 - 5:00pm
#2
downtube shifters and toe-clips..
...the printer/mailer/postoffice delays are out of the club's control. unfortunately, that's not likely to change.
kudos to tim (and ludwig?) for getting the pdf done on time, and to tom for keeping everyone informed about the delays.
note: i substituted 'informed' for 'abreast' to keep this post from being deleted ;)
don
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 7:13am
#3
So, what was waiting in my SPS mailbox last night?
You guessed it, the September NYCC Bulletin.
Thanks for the timely update tom, although by Sept 5 i kind of guessed that the bulletin was going to be late.
But: it is still September. ;-)
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 1:01pm
#4
Suggestion .....
".... ""not an NYCC problem"" ... it never was.
Here's a suggestion that is foolproof:
Do what the 5BBC does - have a member pickup the newsletters from the printer. Bring them into the City for a mailing party. It takes only a few hours to label the newsletters with a few members. Take them to the Main Post Office (30th and 8th Ave?).
5BBC does this every month. I remember receiving mine the next day.
It would be a shame to take the business away from the mailing house we use currently. It would be interesting to see the difference in mailing time though - NYCC mailing party vs. mailing house.
Bindery could become a problem as I believe the current mailhouse does this. NYCC would need to find a new binder the mailing parties were faster.
Sending the newsletters from one house to another slows the production process ..... this is what we do now."
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 2:03pm
#5
Mailing parties was something we did many years ago. I don't remember why they were discontinued.
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 2:07pm
#6
I posted my reply to Diane at 5:03, the message board time is 2:03. How come?
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 2:33pm
#7
your time v. the machine's
"Good thing you did not post the message while vacationing in California. Otherwise it would appear Diane was replying to you. Not really, but it does illustrate the logic for such and explained further in the FAQ"
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 7:07pm
#8
Thank you Peter.
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 8:02pm
#9
Mailing party at monthly club meeting?
How about changing the monthly club meeting to the last Tuesday of the month and getting people at the meeting to do the mailing, or if the Tuesday falls on the 1st do it then, or something like that...
Wed, 09/10/2003 - 4:28am
#10
i heard...
...you ran out of spit. :)
see you at the boathouse at 10am for jeff's ride.
don
Herb wrote:
Mailing parties was something we did many years ago.
I don't remember why they were discontinued.
Mon, 09/22/2003 - 3:29pm
#11
whose faulty reasoning & specious arguments?
"I'm not going to go into all the specious arguments I've seen on the board, but the one that amazes me says that membership increased after we went on active.com and therefore, by implication, that it's active.com that's driving membership.
I am the only one (with a brief remark in reply to me) to mention Active.com. By no means did I imply or write otherwise that Active.com is responsible for the increase in membership. My point is the club already provides a discount for those opting to renewing/signing up online.
It could very well be the SIG as well other factors are responsible for increased membership. As successful as the SIG have been, unless you have done some statistical analysis, your comments are nothing more than conjecture. [Side note: look for nycc website surveys - coming soon]
Actually, there are quite a few people like me who mistrust Internet-based electronic databases and the people who run them. The use of Active.com or Paypal is actually a dis-incentive for us. All you have to do is look at the most recent Jet Blue scandal.
The Jet Blue scandal is a case of misuse of data, period. Bad example. The data forwarded to the defense department was collected from customers providing information via the telephone, ticket office, online, etc. It was a deliberate act within the organization (bad decision by the CEO). How that data was collected is irrelevant. A database is a database whether it collects information from folks who fill out an electronic form or a paper form.
""Electronic"" database management - what other kind of database is there? (Your records are only contained in paper databases) Blue Cross/Blue Shield - printing SSN on the envelope has nothing to do with the internet. It was human error.
As is the case with the NYCC, however you register - online or postal - it all ends up in the same database and contains no social security numbers. Also, credit card transactions provide consumers with just as much protection as issuing checks (e.g. forgery).
"
Mon, 09/22/2003 - 5:55pm
#12
Whose faulty argument or specious argument indeed?
Peter O’Reilly wrote in this thread:
“When Active.com came into play, membership did increase and a surplus of funds occurred.”
Peter Hochstein then wrote in this thread:
“I'm not going to go into all the specious arguments I've seen on the board, but the one that amazes me says that membership increased after we went on active.com and therefore, by implication, that it's active.com that's driving membership.” Incidentally, I did not say that all, or any except one of the specious arguments were Peter's. He nominated himself.
To which Peter O’Reilly replied:
“By no means did I imply or write otherwise that Active.com is responsible for the increase in membership.”
Draw your own conclusions.
Unfortunately, Peter O’Reilly’s attempt to refute that online contributions to or effluences from electronic databases result in invasions of privacy requires a counter-refutation a bit more complicated. So if your eyes haven't glazed over yet, here goes:
Of course the instances I cited were due either to human error or to total human disregard for privacy in the case of Jet Blue. However, a human could not have made those errors, without the technology that allowed the errant human (in the case of Blue Cross) to electronically mingle address data with Social Security data and then laser it into the address field of an envelope; and in the case of Jet Blue to turn over raw data to a private government contractor who then mixed and mingled the data with other data to draw elaborately detailed portraits of the travel, spending, work and play habits (and possibly telephone useage) of Jet Blue passengers. The more electronic databases you appear in, the more your life is an open book to whomever hasinstant access to the data, whether you want it that way or not.
And I haven’t even begun to think about hackers. Please, Peter O'Reilly, don’t tell me that hacking doesn’t or can’t happen.
Mon, 09/22/2003 - 6:45pm
#13
troll
“When Active.com came into play, membership did increase and a surplus of funds occurred.”
Correlation versus causation: no indication of which was given. Without any stat. data, I'll go on record to *explicitly* state it is just an observation (and most likely a correlation - just a guess here).
Again, the discussion is about discounts and additionally about the use of surplus funds. Is this not clear enough already?
Your other issue is incoherent and above all else patronizing- that's how it reads to me. What exactly is your point with respect to NYCC?
Mon, 09/22/2003 - 8:41pm
#14
Bitter, sanctimonious, etc.
Peter Reilly wrote:
You've made two statements in the above posting. I think the first one proves my original point. And I think the second one says more about you than it does about me. I encourage club members who happen upon this post to scroll up, study the material, and decide for themselves.
Tue, 09/23/2003 - 6:19am
#15
Correction
"My post, immediately above this one, begins with the phrase, ""Peter O'Reilly wrote...""
That reference to Peter O'Reilly should not be there. I posted late at night and did not edit my post as well as I should. The next paragraph refers to my own opinions, not his.
I stand by thethe rest of my post.
--Peter Hochstein"
Tue, 09/23/2003 - 7:20am
#16
Pete, re-Pete, and ....no, never mind..
"
Peter O'Reilly wrote:
""Again, the discussion is about discounts and additionally about the use of surplus funds.""
which suggests a referendum item:
Surplus Club Funds
Should surplus club funds be returned to the membership, used to further the interests of the New York City cycling community, or held as a hedge against unforseen future expenses and economic downturn?"
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 7:00pm
#17
Bulletin Mailing
"Until ten years ago the present board position of ""Special Events"" was ""Bulletin Mailing."" The printed bulletins were delivered by messenger to the home of the ""Bulletin Mailer"" who affixed labels and postage, and delivered the bulletins to the post office. When the last person to hold that position declined to remain in office, the board elected to use a mailing service, and replaced that board position with: ""Special Events."""
Tue, 09/09/2003 - 8:15pm
#18
Isn't it still a club problem...
even if the delay is in the printing/binding/addressing/mailing part of the chain? The club chooses who we do business with, and if they fail consistently, they should be replaced. There are many printers in this city who are dying for work who can do the whole job in-house, or who can farm out some part and still get the job done on time.
Wed, 09/10/2003 - 7:24am
#19
Join the Party
There have been a variety of problems over the past year that have delayed the bulletin. For the last few months however, the mailing house has consistently been one of the squeaky wheels and it is time for a change.
At our last meeting, the Board considered eliminating the mailing service in favor of a monthly member run mailing party, but many were skeptical that we would find enough volunteers from the club to actually make it happen. I'd love it if we were proven wrong. We would need about 4 or 5 people once a month to affix mailing labels to the bulletins and take them to the post office. It would be nice to have someone who could pick up the bulletins at the printer in Brooklyn and deliver them to the mailing party venue but not essential. The printer can arrange delivery if need be. The printer also does the binding so that would not be an issue.
How 'bout it? If you're interested in joining the party, email me at the above address.
Fri, 09/12/2003 - 12:55pm
#20
Bulletin -- mailed to all members?
Is the NYCC bulletin mailed to all members? In my running club, which is smaller than the NYCC, the monthly newsletter is only mailed to those who specifically request it. If the NYCC does not do this already, it could save a lot of time and paper.
Fri, 09/12/2003 - 1:33pm
#21
Paper or plastic
Both our on-line and paper application and renewal forms contain a check box for members to choose whether they want to receive the monthly bulletin on-line or on paper. Currently, roughly 65% of our members choose to receive the bulletin on paper.
Fri, 09/12/2003 - 1:39pm
#22
Wow you'd think I'd have noticed, and then perhaps remembered!
Sat, 09/13/2003 - 9:48am
#23
Paper $$$ vs. Online FREE
No doubt this has been discussed at length already by the board but I'm guessing that if there were an extra charge (eg $12 pa) levied on members (as done by the running club in question, I believe, and also by some other cycle clubs) who opted for the paper version, that % would probably decrease significantly.
This would decrease the workload and reasonably place the burden of cost on those who desire the service.
Sat, 09/13/2003 - 6:43pm
#24
isn't there already a discount...
...for pdf-only membership? or is there just a discount for online registration? it certainly makes sense that those who want trees cut, rivers polluted and postmen mauled by pitbulls should pay a higher price for the service...dont'cha think?
:)
don
Sun, 09/14/2003 - 2:57pm
#25
Stay Tuned
The board has discussed this idea at length and the opinion of the board members is pretty much unanimous - the club should offer a discount in membership to those who elect not to receive the paper bulletin. This would require a change in the club dues structure which, according to our by-laws, cannot be put into effect without a vote of the entire membership.
There will be a referendum on the November ballot as to whether such a change in dues should be enacted.
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 8:42am
#26
Is the paper bulletin an economic hardship for the club?
Or is this just being used as a revisionist rationale for the elimination of a product (yes, a product) that the NYCC seems incapable of bringing to market on a sustainable basis?
If we are going to discount membership for those who don't want a paper bulletin, what other service waivers will we provide discounts for?
Will there be a discount for those members who do not attend monthly meetings? for those who don't ride with the club? how about a discount for 'safe riders' (who might reduce the club's accident liability)? Maybe a discount for members who don't access the club website? There is already a 100% discount for non-members; why should they get all the savings?
What other activities/services/products can the club cut for members who are willing to pay (and receive) less?
And is this really the path we want NYCC to follow?
(just my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary)
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 1:02pm
#27
Neither
"The paper bulletin is not an economic hardship for the club and since no one is suggesting its elimination at this time, the referendum that will appear on the November ballot is not a revisionist rationale for anything.
I'm glad Banana dude mentioned the club meeting because it provides an excellent analogy to the proposal for the paper bulletin. Club members do not pay for the monthly meetings unless they attend. The same principal would apply to the paper bulletin should the above proposal be approved. If you don't get it, you don't pay for it. Also, meeting costs and bulletin costs are determined by the number of ""users."" Website costs are not analogous as the club pays a fixed price for our web hosting service whether we have 10 users or 10,000. As to insurance, our carrier does not offer a premium reduction for safe riders nor do they have any way of evaluating who is a safe rider and who is not. And since club rides incur no expense to the club, there would be no reason to offer a discount to those who don't participate because there are no costs to begin with.
My personal opinion? I'm as wired as the next guy but I still like getting the paper bulletin. I like having a physical copy on my coffee table so I can easily check upcoming ride listings or curl up on my sofa with a raffish bit of Road Dirt. I also realize that the paper bulletin requires a good deal of expense for the club to print and mail so I'm willing to pay extra to receive it. Since the bulletin is also published on our website at virtually no expense, I consider receiving the paper bulletin something of a privilege. I don't think those who do not receive the paper bulletin should have to pay for my privilege.
"
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 1:27pm
#28
On revisionism..
"Is the issue surrounding the bulletin the cost of production or the repeated failure to deliver in a timely manner?
If a process is broken do we fix it, or do we make up reasons to abandon it?
Let's not lose sight of the root of this thread.
btw: i'm not your ""dude"""
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 2:32pm
#29
It's difficult...
to keep site of the roots of this discussion if you insist on framing it with false arguments. That is the only revisionism going on here.
1) As I said previously, no one on the board has suggested or is suggesting abandonning the paper bulletin. Insisting that this is part of the argument is simply disingenuous and obscures the real issues.
2) I have also said repeatedly that we are taking steps to improve the timeliness of the paper bulletin delivery. Your insistance that we are trying to kill the paper bulletin because we don't want to fix the delivery problem is wrong on both counts.
3) The issue surrounding the bulletin is that it is currently available on-line at virtually no cost to the club and on paper at considerable cost to the club. Yes, the club can afford the cost of the paper bulletin but should all members have to pay for a service that many members do not want? You can vote yes, I imagine others will vote no.
I have no objection to debating the merits of the proposal. In fact, I welcome it. But let's stick to the actual terms of the debate and not manufacture issues that are not part of the discussion.
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 7:44pm
#30
Where's Baghdad Bob when you need him?
"I don't know why you keep insisting that ""no one is suggesting the paper bulletin be done away with"", when time and again on this message board many people suggest it. Every conversation I have about the bulletin with fellow club members comes around to ""are they going to get rid of the paper bulletin"" or ""should they get rid of it"". If no one on the board is mentioning it, they're a rare minority.
What interests me is this: Will electronic member dues be discounted or will recipients of the paper bulletin be charges $24 plus a surcharge?
From my days on the board, I recall that printing and mailing are the big expenses, along with liability insurance. There are a few other expenses, like post office box and office supplies. If we eliminate the paper bulletin for some or all, do we add up the non-printing and mailing expenses, divide by current number of e-members and arrive at our new non-paper bulletin dues? If not, what kind of perks will we get for our dues? More free lunch rides? Coupons for free inner tubes at local bike shops?
I know many people who think the reason that nothing has been done to fix the delivery problems with the paper bulletin is to inspire members to say ""forget about it, I'll download it"". I've always chalked it up to screwing up, but I'm starting to wonder."
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 9:10pm
#31
Why can't people read?
"What I've said is that no one on the board is suggesting that the bulletin should be eliminated. There are club members who think it should and those who think it shouldn't but as of now there is no official or unofficial plan to eliminate the bulletin. I wonder where you come up with the statement ""If no one on the board is mentioning it, they're a rare minority."" Would you like to share your polling data? I can tell you, every month the printed bulletin is late I get many emails from people asking what's happening. And the suggestion that the problems with delivery are an attempt to sabatoge the paper bulletin is thoroughly despicable and uncalled for. Nothing could be further from the truth. You might also want to read an earlier post where I stated that I prefer the paper bulletin myself.
I also said earlier that the referendum will involve a reduction in dues for those who elect not to receive the paper bulletin. I meant a reduction from current levels, perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.
As to Bill's other points:
""If we eliminate the paper bulletin for some or all, do we add up the non-printing and mailing expenses, divide by current number of e-members and arrive at our new non-paper bulletin dues?""
No. The reduction would be based on a calculation of total bulletin expenses divided by the number of members who receive the paper bulletin.
""If not, what kind of perks will we get for our dues? More free lunch rides? Coupons for free inner tubes at local bike shops?""
You may have noticed this year there was an additional free lunch ride. That was a result of the club ending up with additional funds by printing less bulletins. We are also offering additional incentives for ride leaders, this too is a result of some extra cash.
If it is decided not to offer a reduction in dues and the club continues to pocket the savings we will continue to offer the extra free lunch ride and perhaps other activities as well. If such were the case, I for one would prefer the money going to such activities but of course those who prefer free inner tubes are free to lobby the board to make their preference known.
"
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 6:17am
#32
Oh, sorry, i forgot...
I wasn't on any of the 'free-lunch rides', shouldn't i get a discount?
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 7:49am
#33
Now at least you're sticking to the actual argument.
To answer your question, no, there are no plans to offer members a discount who do not go on the free lunch rides.
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 6:38pm
#34
I can read...
"Just a bit of clarification:
When I say that I find it hard to believe that no one on the board mentioned ditching the paper bulletin, I don't mean you personally. I read your post about preferring the paper bulletin, but I admit that I have not read every post to this thread. I take a look at the most recent posts to long threads to see what's new and feel free to comment.
When I ""chalk it up to screwing-up"" I mean that various errors and mishaps by various people on and/or off the board caused the bulletin to be late on several occasions, and it did not seem to be a conspiracy. If the screw-ups were at the printing/mailing house and they happened repeatedly and without good reason, then after the 2nd or 3rd time, the board or someone on the board should switch the printer/mailer. If not, they are screwing-up by not doing so. Failing to do so can give the impression of sabotage, or at least apathy.
Wouldn't it be easier to call/fax/e-mail a few printers and get some price quotes, pick one, and switch, instead of apologizing each month and getting into debates as to whether or not there is a nefarious cabal seeking to do away with the printed bulletin?"
Wed, 09/17/2003 - 11:09pm
#35
Re: Where's Baghdad Bob when you need him?
"that's funny.
maybe we should hide behind bushes along 9w and sling rocks at the board members as they ride by?
:)
don
Bill Vojtech said:
I know many people who think the reason that nothing has been done to fix the delivery problems with the paper bulletin is to inspire members to say ""forget about it, I'll download it"". I've always chalked it up to screwing up, but I'm starting to wonder.
"
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 8:16am
#36
Can we make this easy for everyone?
OK-
Most of us have web access and probably look for rides on the web more often than on paper.
But no need to penalize those that don't.
So do we give up the paper bulletin?
Well, why not?
But please let's not charge extra for those that can't get it.
I know, re Tom's last email that we'll vote on this, but here's an opinion from quarters that are usually quiet.
Lynn
Sat, 09/20/2003 - 8:53pm
#37
Banana guy/dude/slice/shake/whatever
...it's funny how you throw this thread off on a tangent and then ask others to stay on topic.
:)
there's an old saying in our business...pick two out of the following three:
(1) price
(2) quality
(3) speed
i challenge the folks in this thread who claim there's a better, faster deal out there to make it happen. do the footwork and present it to the board. i don't think it's possible to find a cheaper, faster turnaround...but i might be wrong.
don
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 12:27pm
#38
Discount for those refusing paper bulletin?
A lot I've missed here over the last few days! But, to clear one thing up, the New York Flyers (the running club in question) does NOT charge a premium for those who wish to receive the monthly newsletter in the mail (who tend to be, I believe, those with limited or inferior internet access or no internet access).
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 9:15am
#39
Clarification
Thank you Lynn for adding your opinion to this thread and especially for not introducing extraneous arguments that are not part of the debate. I hope more members will do the same. The way your post is worded however makes me ask whether I've done an adequate job in explaining what we will actually be asking on the November ballot.
Members who want to receive the monthly bulletin will not be asked to pay more than what they are currently paying, $24 for first year memberships and off-line renewals or $21 for on-line renewals. The proposal will ask if we should offer a reduced membership fee to members who decline to receive the monthly bulletin. The amount of that reduction has yet to be determined.
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 11:35am
#40
Clear as...
...gold, Mr. President.
Is it all about money, really?
So, what portion of the fixed costs of bulletin production will be subsidized by those not receiving the printed bulletin? Or will revenues from our 'profitable' activities be applied to cover these fixed costs?
..and how might this impact the 'free lunch' that certain of us are so accustomed to?
TANSTAAFL - Lazarus Long
(there ain't no such thing as a free lunch)
This all smacks of 'Voodoo Economics' - Ross Perot
BTW: The origin of this thread seems to have been your reporting that the paper bulletin would be mailed out late...again. Perhaps you should stick to topic.
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 2:12pm
#41
Once more with feeling
"For some reason, you still insist on making this issue far more complicated than it is. I'll attempt to explain it once again. The issue is not money, if the referendum passes, it will mean less money for the club. It is not about killing the paper bulletin, the board would not need a membership vote to eliminate the paper bulletin, the by-laws do not mandate a membership vote for that purpose. It is simply about deciding whether members who opt out of paper bulletin delivery should have to pay for a service that they do not receive. Put another way, should the money that the club saves by not printing bulletins that a large portion of members do not receive be given back to those members or should it go into the club cauffers and used for more club functions like the free lunch ride or additional ride leader incentives. I'm sure I could find still more ways to put this but I'm beginning to feel like a, eh-hem, broken record.
BTW, I believe the first person to use the term ""Voodoo Economics"" was George H.W. Bush during the 1980 Republican primary. He was referring to Ronald Reagan's proposed economic policy.
"
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 9:26am
#42
And just exactly how..
..is this referendum going to ensure the timely delivery of the printed bulletin?
I mean, just for the record.
Thu, 09/18/2003 - 4:21pm
#43
banana guy
Empty barrels make the most noise!
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 2:37pm
#44
To sin by silence when they should protest...
"...makes cowards of men.
:-
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 2:51pm
#45
mind the insults, please.
"""Visitors are invited to express their thoughts, opinions, information,
questions or whatever else is on their mind as long as it is cycling related. We do
not welcome and will remove any posts that contain profanity, direct personal
attacks or are in any other way deemed offensive by the NYCC powers that be.'
"
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 3:04pm
#46
The Bulletin Is Late Again, and That's the Topic
I'm with Banana Guy on this one.
Whether to create a two-tiered membership structure is another thread altogether, or should be. Otherwise we are using one topic (late bulletins) to manipulate opinion on the other (two-tiered membership structure).
I am opposed to a two-tiered membership structure. It adds unnecessary complexity to the record keeping of the Membership director -- a job I have held and can attest needs no more complexity!
Plus, like Tom, I am as wired as anyone but I like my paper bulletin and I want to keep it. A two-tier membershp opens the door to endless debate about terminating the paper bulletin -- and potentially a lot of other silly discussions about which members get what.
If the club is saving money on paper bulletins not sent to members who PDF, fabulous! Let's subsidize the Christmas party or provide better incentive freebies to ride leaders. The dues is not expensive -- it's one of the best bargains in NY -- even without a no-paper-bulletin-discount.
I vote to leave the membership structure alone, spare the membership director, and get on with the business of finding a reliable printing/mailing service.
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 4:09pm
#47
Motion seconded.
I do NOT get the paper bulletin but I agree. It ain't broke, don't fix it.
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 6:14pm
#48
membership director & economics
"I am opposed to a two-tiered membership structure. It adds unnecessary complexity to the record keeping of the Membership director -- a job I have held and can attest needs no more complexity!
This is simply not true and would not be an issue for the membership director. Alot has changed since you fulfilled such duty. I know this for a fact because I worked behind-the-scenes automating the membership renewals and record keeping.
Following your logic and concern, if anything the reverse is true! Those whom receiving an electronic bulletin is not an option, i.e. no internet access, they actually consume more of the membership director's time. Retreiving the club's P.O. box mail, opening envelopes, reading folks' handwriting and typing in their info into the membership database is hardly complex, but it is error prone and time consuming. A volunteer's time is a cost not to be missed!
For those who renew online, this is not an issue and ends up being less time consuming for the membership director (plus others). The club does provide a discount to those who renew/sign-up online.
When Active.com came into play, membership did increase and a surplus of funds occurred. I readily admit I don't know or recall all the particulars, but I do know without refute instead of ""returning"" the surplus in the form of lower membership dues, it was spent on such things as you suggest - ride leader incentives, Christmas party among others.
I vote to leave the membership structure alone, spare the membership director, and get on with the business of finding a reliable printing/mailing service
Perhaps the problem is our current mailing volume is in$ufficent to attract or command the service we expect. I'd speculate to say that there is not much profit to be had by a service company mailing out < 1,000 parcels of mail especially with NYC's pricey business overhead. No less, postage costs have also steadily gone up. I know professionally this is big issue for the high volume magazine publication industry which affects their bottom line in a big way.
With increased productivity, more demand for a new substitute (electronic copy) produced at a lower cost, like everything else in this economically deflated world, it is most fitting and suitable that such offering be done so at a lower price. This is the norm for everything else in this world. Being presented with a choice is very democratic and quite nice, too."
Sat, 09/20/2003 - 8:36pm
#49
wouldn't it be great...
...if boropark could provide the club with inhouse mailing services? they offered when i was editor but the club decided to go with nycib.
it's clear to anyone in the business that the more services you can offer inhouse, the shorter the overall turnaround time.
don
Fri, 09/19/2003 - 7:45pm
#50
Breaking News
I would expect that it is obvious to everyone that the proposal of offering a two-tiered membership structure has nothing to do with timely delivery of the bulletin. This thread may have started as a discussion about late bulletin delivery but it soon morphed into a discussion of bulletin issues in general. That's often the way threads work. Offering a discount to members who don't receive the paper bulletin thereby potentially reducing bulletin circulation is certainly a bulletin related issue. Anyone who feels the two tiered membership issue deserves its own thread is welcome to start one.
To bring everyone up to date, several members have agreed to take part in monthly mailing parties. Starting with the November issue, that is how the bulletin will be mailed. It will save the club money and should be more efficient. I extend a special invitation to those who are complaining loudest about late bulletin delivery to join the party. So far, none have.
