Recommendations for fast C Sigger?

42 replies [Last post]

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 9:35am

Anonymous

"In one of the threads here, I read that for A-Classic and A-19 Sigs, ""Riders who can comfortably complete 4 consecutive laps of Central Park in 1:50:00 or better have enough fitness for the A-19 SIG. Riders who can comfortably complete 4 consecutive laps in 1:35:00 or better have enough fitness for the A-SIG Classic.""

I and a couple others who did the C-Sig qualification ride rode the 3 laps in 1 hour 8 mins (easily - I had another lap in me), so presumably we should have been able to qualify for A Classic or A 19 with one more lap, at 4 laps around 1:35:00-1:50:00!

Any suggestions for people like me who are very motivated to get skilled and fast and missed getting into a more appropriate Sig, like B? (I missed doing the B sig qualifier since I only got my bike about a month ago, after not riding since a teen). In the past month I have ramped up my cruising speed from 11mph the week I got my bike to 16-17mph, and did a few coaching sessions with CRCA so now I know how to do single and rotating pacelines.

-Frustrated"

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 10:37am

Betsy Hafkin (not verified)

Stick with the C-SIG

It may be slow and frustrating at times but you will learn excellent group riding and bike handling skills. If you want to ride faster do some faster rides mid-week or on Sundays.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 11:22am

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

I've started doing this, which has been great. Other people I've ridden with have told me that I am a B rider and should have done the B Sig. I wish it were possible to do a B Sig right after the C Sig ends, instead of having to wait an entire year. Or do some kind of B STS that could start after graduation. I really like the B Sig curriculum - the pamphlet they put together is really good.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 11:57am

Jim Reaven (not verified)

Plenty to learn

My suggestion is to be patient. Yes, you started too late for the B SIG and that is unfortunate. But, now your best course is to finish the C SIG. There are no SIGS or STS after the early spring.

Come to the midweek B workouts as was already suggested. You can also do B rides rides on Sunday. (And, as a SIG participant, you can notice how sloppy some of the riders are...important observations if you want to become a pace line rider or to ever ride where people know how to cut cheese properly.)

At the end of the SIG, come on the club Berkshires trip. That's a great place to do B rides and perhaps try an A19 ride. If you're dropped, everything is still beautiful and getting back to the inn is always easy and lovely. You will hear more about the Berkshires trip at the C SIG gathering this Saturday.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 12:22pm

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

I've done some B rides which has been great. I am wondering if some B rides do pacelines. On one of the rides, there was a guy who kept braking really hard in front and was driving people nuts. I didn't think I would see that on a B ride. I'm looking forward to hearing about the Berkshires trip - sounds fun!

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 2:12pm

Yogi (not verified)

Siggy Stardust

"? I am wondering if some B rides do pacelines.

Yes, the faster B rides do paceline, depending on the leaders and the size of group. As with pacelines at any level, everybody needs to be on the same page. If you’re feeling spunky, let the leader(s) know if you can help out.

? There was a guy who kept braking really hard in front and was driving people nuts.

This is not acceptable at any level; you should let him know that’s dangerous even if he’s the leader.
"

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 5:45pm

Maggie Clarke (not verified)

Solution: Some later-starting SIGs

I've always thought that the SIGs start a bit early for those who are new to the Club. Ed Sobin and I haven't done our Introduction to Club Riding seminars for a couple of years, but we'd thought that sometime in May was likely to get more new riders than the previously scheduled early March was. I think that having someone as fast as this ride with the C SIG (or STS) is a mistake. What about the faster STS groups? I know that my STS takes riders at any time. Do the others?

Fri, 04/06/2007 - 6:28am

Russell (not verified)

Coaching Sessions w/ CRCA

What are the coaching sessions with the CRCA like and how did you come accross them?

Fri, 04/06/2007 - 11:39am

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

All you have to do is join CRCA as a racing member - www.crca.net.

Fri, 04/06/2007 - 12:47pm

William (not verified)

CRCA coaching sessions

The CRCA coaching sessions are primarily designed to teach people racing skills (sprinting, working in a break away group, catching a break, etc). The coaches also discuss conditioning methods and some drills are demonstrated to enhance race specific conditioning (such as leg speed).

The groups in the coaching sessions tend to be people who haven't raced yet or have some, generally limited, race experience. It is expected that one already has a fairly decent level of conditioning and good paceline skills.

Many of the riders, in spite of their limited experience are very aggressive and in some cases quite strong as well. As such, the sessions tend to be fairly intense.

The coaches are excellent. All highly experienced in both racing and coaching.

Sat, 04/07/2007 - 10:10pm

#10

Frankie ! (not verified)

Relax !!!!

Relax don't do it
When you want to go to it
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
Relax don't do it
When you want to come
When you want to come

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 11:03am

#11

Anon (not verified)

here's a recommendation

Um, if you feel you have enough skill and speed AND motivation to get into riding without the SIG, just quit the SIG and try going on A or B rides.

That said, did you complete that fourth lap of the park? If not, I would try doing four in a row before you change anything. Sometimes when you're rusty, you don't go faster after a few laps, you actually go slower.

Good luck!

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 11:44am

#12

Joe S. (not verified)

As Betsy suggested, do faster rides during the week (though those are somewhat in short supply during the SIG season). And if you think your group riding and bike handling skills are good, start leading rides (if your skills turn out to be not so good, you'll find that you won't get repeat customers). If you need cue sheets, go to the Rides section of this site.

On a side note, IMHO, the A-19 and A-Classic suggested CP lap times are a bit misleading. If someone barely completes the 4-laps in 1hr 50min, I'm pretty sure they would get dropped on every A19 ride after week 2.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 12:05pm

#13

Judith Tripp (not verified)

I absolutely second that!

"""A19 and A-Classic suggested CP lap times are a bit misleading"" -- I did the A19 in 2002, and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I had to give up everything else, it was all consuming! But my 4 laps in 1:30 - 1:35 was not that difficult."

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 6:57pm

#14

Betsy Hafkin (not verified)

I completely agree

The qualifying times for the A SIGs are definitely misleading. I did my 4 laps in 90 minutes which technically qualifies me for the A-Classic. I'm barely hanging on in the A19.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 7:58pm

#15

Ted (not verified)

Too many rules of thumb

I think the person that came up with 1:50 for the A19 SIG figured that the first weeks go at a slower 16-17mph while the pace line skills are taught. Then they added in the rule of thumb that average ride speeds are about 3mph below the crusing speed, thus if you can ride 13mph average (1:50 for 4 loops), you are fine the first week. Maybe they added in that winter clothes can add a few minutes a lap.

The problem is that out on good roads in warm weather, the average speed of an a19 is pretty much 19. My guess is that most A19 riders can average about 18-19mph (it isn't totally flat) for four loops of the park. (1:16-1:20). In cold windy winter weather maybe add 10-15 mins.

To the OP, ride with some different groups, and figure out where you are comfortable, and maybe a bit pushed beyond your comfort level if you want to get faster.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 2:17pm

#16

Yogi (not verified)

Puttin the finger on it

> the average speed of an a19 is pretty much 19. My guess is that most A19 riders can average about 18-19mph (it isn't totally flat) for four loops of the park. (1:16-1:20). In cold windy winter weather maybe add 10-15 mins.

And, I think the slow A’s rides average about 16/17’s for the whole trip, and the A classic w/caffeine rides average 19 in May. The cruising speed really depends on the road conditions and who’s riding up front.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 12:07pm

#17

J (not verified)

First, congrats on the progress. In the beginning, it just happens – you ride and you get better.

As said above, I’d stick with the C SIG and do other rides that you like and are faster.

A word of advice though – don’t get a big head. Do the math. 4 laps of CP is 24 miles.

1:50 for 24 miles is an average of 13.09 mph.

1:35 is 15.16 mph average.

Your 3 laps (18 miles) in 1:08 is 15.9 mph average.

So, yes, you are probably a B, but to progress now takes work. Going from an 11 mph average to 15 is great. But getting up to 16, 17, 18 is progressively harder. A 19 mph gives you 4 laps in 1 hour 16 minutes. You will have to start doing intervals and devote some blood, sweat and tears for each mph as you get, if you want to get … faster. Realize that some racers do 4 laps in under an hour. Heck, I bet Div A pros can do 4 laps in 45 minutes.

Also realize that A and B rides go longer distances and often involves lots more climbing. Can you do 100 miles with 7,000 feet of climbing? And feel OK when you’re done??

So again, get your C miles in. Don’t get too cocky. LSD means long slow distance. It may seem wasteful, but simply riding in zones 2 or low 3 is essential for base mileage.

Good luck,

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 12:17pm

#18

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

Thanks. I do know about base mileage and have been doing endurance rides 4 times a week, notching up by 20 min per week (60min to 80min to 100min) - along with an additional 2 days/80min of commuting each week. I've found my speed to have increased by another 0.75mph 2 weeks after the 15.9mph qualification ride. But your point is well taken about the distance and climbing involved with the A and B rides, and that makes me feel a bit better about continuing with the C Sig.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 1:02pm

#19

Bob Ross (not verified)

yeah yeah yeah, faster, faster, more powerful, more MPH's, all well and good...

But if you actually want to ride with other people...

AND you want other people to want to ride with you...

you'll stick with the C-SIG and absorb everything they tell you like a sponge. Even if a person somehow *doesn't* become a faster rider after 8 weeks of the C-SIG, if they pay attention to half of what the ride leaders teach about skills, technique, & etiquette, they'll be a safer, more competent group rider than most of the folks currently in the B-SIG. And the A-SIG.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 1:10pm

#20

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

"Good point... (as I ruefully reminisce on my experience with ""The Braker,"" e.g. ""that guy"" from my last B ride.)

Is the C-Sig curriculum on skills, technique, etiquette, etc. as detailed as the B-Sig's?"

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 3:53pm

#21

Richard Pu (not verified)

1:50 is Too High for an A-19

I thought that the rule of thumb you cite for the A-19 is too high. I can do four laps in about 1:35 or less, but I struggle to keep up with a B-17. It's one thing to crank at 17 mph for an hour and a half, but another to keep it up for five hours.

Try going out with a B-17, or go on one of the 5BBC quick spin rides, which maintain roughly a 17 mph pace. If you have trouble with those, steer clear of the A-19s.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 5:41pm

#22

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

I did go out on a B17 ride and found it quite easy. But I've also heard that the rides are much slower earlier in the season. I'm considering trying slower A and B rides to see where I fit.

Tue, 04/03/2007 - 10:17pm

#23

Jim N (not verified)

There's something to be said for learning what there is to learn in the C SIG, but if it's too slow for you, definately do some faster group rides. When you're new to the club, it's hard to know where you fit. I think the suggestions that you stick with the C SIG have to do with learning the non-athletic parts of group rides, like pace lines (which maybe don't happen in C SIG anyway) and general group riding etiquette. If you're conscientious you can pick that stuff up.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 4:03am

#24

Bob Mirell (not verified)

Classification times

"I tend to agree that the classification times can be a bit misleading for the A-19/Classic SIGs however, the phrase ""Riders who can comfortably complete 4 consecutive laps"" leaves alot to interpretation. How does the author define ""comfortable""...? Does it mean ""leisurely""...? If they do, then lowering your 4 lap time by at least 3-4 minutes per lap doesn't seem out of reach. So now...we cut as much as 16 minutes off the prescribed classification time. Then there's an assumption that you're going to train at least 3 days a week and get stronger than your ability to do even your ""revised"" classification time. Well...here we are cutting maybe umm...another minute or two off each lap. That's as much as 8 more minutes and a total of as much as 24 minutes faster. Getting closer to reality no...? The bottom line is that these classification times are just ""windows"" that you try to fit into. For the first 3 weeks you can switch SIGs (up or down) if you're working too easy, or too hard. The change for next year should be a more comprehensive definition of the word ""comfortable""."

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 2:10pm

#25

Yogi (not verified)

Window too big–

Yes 1:50 for 4 laps is pretty slow even if you’re wearing your down parka and riding with under inflated tires. The classification could be made clearer to the people who are trying to find the right “fit”. If you’re “comfortable” riding half-hour laps, your hammerhead gene is likely dormant and unexpressed. It’s not to say that you won’t catch the bug and be racing next year, it’s just that the A’s will most likely be …”somewhat uncomfortable” for now.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 4:18am

#26

fendergal (not verified)

"There is no real reason to feel like you ""have"" to stick with the C-SIG if you feel you underestimated your riding ability. We ride our bikes for fun, right? Seek out experienced riders who ride a little faster than you, and dollars to donuts, they'll be more than happy to give you loads of advice.

(I have noticed that many people in the club seem to be of the viewpoint that because the SIGs are generally a good thing, they must be a good thing for everyone, in every situation. I think this is oversimplified and misleading.)"

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 6:56am

#27

David (not verified)

Really fast c sigger?

I had been training and doing about 100 miles a week and had been thinking about joining the b sig until a medical problem knocked me out for about two months. I therefore joined the C sig and was put in the fastest group which included some very strong riders. Although I am just over 50 I have been riding since I was a teen. Still I am sure that there is a lot I can learn from the C sig that I have finally been able to commit to. If you haven't ridden since you were a teen and just got your bike a month ago unless you have some incredible innate talent and strength it is hard to imagine you are as fast as you say you are. If you are the beginner you say you are the C sig is an incredible opportunity to learn all about cycling and it's free also. If you are not in the fastest C sig you should ask to be put there. They are a great group of people.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 11:07am

#28

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

Well, I've been very fit and participated in other sports before I started cycling so I have a pretty good aerobic base already. It's just been about bike handling skills for me - plus I did BMX racing as a kid/teen so learning to handle a road bike has not been all that hard. I don't think that progressing to from 11 to 16-17mph is remarkable if you already have an athletic background.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 11:22am

#29

Hector (not verified)

Does the C Sig do a rotating paceline? If it does, then just stay with it to learn the group riding skills you will need when you eventually ride faster with more experienced riders. If it doesn't then maybe see if you can move up to the B16 Sig, maybe they will let you transfer.

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 3:05pm

#30

Anonymous (not verified)

One thing to keep in mind, Mr. fast C-sigger, is that most of the people currently in the B SIG had ride times during the classification ride about the same as you did, so I'm not sure about A-19 for you. I personally did 4 laps in under one and a half hours. I was done with 3 laps in about one hour 5 minutes. This is an average of about 17mph, and I was placed in B18 (which ability-wise has turned out to be a decent fit), so by that metric, going for the A-19 might put you a bit ahead of yourself, though you might be be A-19 material by the end of the summer if you keep training.

I personally find all the classification guidelines to be imprecise and (no offense to anyone, please) basically useless. There was a long discussion on this board not long ago that went nowhere. Some say add 3 mph to your average 4-lap speed to get your classification, others say to use the table in this web site (which actually only adds 1-2 mph to your average time depending on the speed.) For me, using these rules would have put me anywhere between B17 and A-20, go figure. One thing I know is I would probably crash and burn in a 20 group.

My personal view is that cyclists just sort themselves into groups and the rank order develops organically, not by prescription - people who can't keep up with a given group drop to slower ones and those who are faster than their group eventually try faster rides. So, yes, on average an A-19er is faster than a B-18 is faster than a B-17er, but only God knows the actual average 4-lap times for members of each group. And I'm sure it doesn't stay consistent from year to year. For club rides, the only objective thing to figure out is how fast you can/want to go on the flats as that determines the speed of the ride, but still during a long ride, climbing ability will separate the pack.

For the SIGS (i.e. your placement within each SIG category), I think they mainly try to sort people so that the groups are roughly balanced and people of roughly equal ability are kept together, regardless of actual ride times. So there are going to be some pretty fast C-Siggers like yourself. My view is that experience rather than athletic ability is key - for someone who hasn't been on a bike since a teen, you probably want the C. But like others, I would strongly recommend testing out non-SIG B rides during the week and on Sundays, especially if you're impatient.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 7:01am

#31

Hannah (not verified)

Why Mr.? (nm)

Wed, 04/04/2007 - 3:45pm

#32

Joe S. (not verified)

Moving to the B-SIG?

"A few folks have implied that Fast C-Sigger can move to the B-SIG (which is consistent with reports that I heard pre-SIG, when people were worried about getting stuck in the wrong group for their abilities, i.e., ""don't worry, you can move up or down if need be""), where it clearly seems that he/she would be happier. My understanding now is that this was never possible with respect to inter-SIG moves to the B-SIG - apparently the B-SIG has been full from the start.

I would have thought that once the attrition kicks in (if it hasn't already), there would be room to allow a few of the faster C-Siglets to move up to the B-SIG. Coming at if from the other side, if an A19-Siglet wanted to move down to the B-SIG, would that be possible? Speaking of the A19, what has become of the A19-Siglets who have dropped out? Have they moved to the B-Sig?

B-SIG leaders, care to clarify the situation for us?"

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 9:09am

#33

Yogi (not verified)

Clarify Butter

I’ve helped out with the B18’s for the pass few years, and we’ve had people move down from the A19’s before. We’ve had some successes where the rider fit in well with the 18’s then gone on to do the AC’s.

The problem is that sometimes they move down too late. One year we had 2 riders moved down to the 18’s after we’re into ride 4 or 5 and they couldn’t keep up. It could be that they missed a week or 2 and were expecting an easier time, I don’t know. So they either moved down another level or dropped all together. On hindsight, they should have started with the 16s or 17s to see if they wanted to move up.

The good thing about the B’s is that there’s sorting out of people before the first ride. Thanks to Mark G. and others, you’re not riding with people that are way stronger or weaker than you. It’s not a perfect system, and people do struggle or find themselves bottled up (before they learn how to ride up front). There’s more to riding than putting the pedal to the metal, and the B’s tries to install some sound group riding skills in a safe environment.

I can't comment on the C's to B's.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 10:06am

#34

Steve (not verified)

I don't think the club does a good job of guiding people to the right group.

I did the B-18 Sig one of the past few years and there was such a huge difference in the abilities of people within my small group that it ruined the dyamics of many rides. The group splintered on even the smallest hills.

I blame this on the fact that while the B leaders do a good job of separating 18s, 17s and 16s they do not do a good job categorizing people within those groups. On the first group ride they basically told people to lump themselves into a group. It would have been better if they picked the groups based on peoples lap times. You are just asking for trouble when you have a group of people who do 20 minute laps in the same group with people doing 24 minute laps.

Now don't get me wrong, the leaders in my group were great and I learned a ton, but people could have gotten more out of it.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 10:47am

#35

Yogi (not verified)

Group Dynamics

>I don't think the club does a good job of guiding people to the right group.

Yes, it would help if the riders had some knowledge of their own abilities and motivations before signing on. People should do a few club rides before the sigs. If you’re doing 20min laps, you’re probably pushing the pace on B-rides, and many B leaders/riders can’t keep up with you at that pace all day.

>The group splintered on even the smallest hills.

Yes, you’ll find that the hills separate the wheat from the chaff even at the TDF. On B rides, there’s more of an effort to keep the group together.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 1:41pm

#36

Tanya (not verified)

Ride with your clone for the best results

Yep. The SIG leaders should spend their nights calculating how to group Steve with Steve-alikes (who is B-18.3784567) and to separate them from Paul and Paul-alikes (who maybe B-18.6578907), for god forbid that one should slow down for another.

To get a perfect riding experience, one should ride with one's clones.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 1:50pm

#37

Fast C Sigger (not verified)

"""Yap. The SIG leaders should spend their nights calculating how to group Steve with Steve-alikes (who is B-18.3784567) and to separate them from Paul and Paul-alikes (who maybe B-18.6578907), for god forbid that one should slow down for another. To get a perfect riding experience, one should ride with one's clones.""

LOL!!!!

This thread has certainly clarified a lot of these ongoing Sig issues for me and the tons of C-Siggers and other lurkers reading this thread...."

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 5:56pm

#38

Carol Waaser (not verified)

A Few Answers

1. The C-SIG does not teach rotating pacelines. It does teach excellent basic bike handling and group riding skills.

2. It's possible to move between the A-19 and B-SIGs (in either direction) because they start on the same weekend, so as long as you move within the first 3 weeks, you're not likely to be out of step with either the skills taught or the fitness level reached.

3. It's possible to move down from the B-SIG to the C-SIG because the C starts 2 weeks after the B. You just have to wait until the C-SIG starts to move down. The reverse does not work. If you've waited to start the C-SIG, and then after the first real ride you decide to move up, you're already at the 5th week of the B-SIG by the time you join. Sorry, but you've missed too many classes and rides to make the jump.

4. There really is no way to truly determine which SIG you belong in just by lap times. So much depends on how fit you are when you start and how much more fitness you can expect to achieve over a ten-week period. If you're reasonably fit, but not at peak, and you're young, you can expect to improve quickly, so you might be able to stay with the A-19 if you complete 4 laps in, say, 1:35 or 1:40 and you're willing to work hard during those 10 weeks. I, on the other hand, stay pretty fit all year but because I'm over 60 and am prone to exercise-induced asthma I know I can't go beyond B-17 or 18 even though I can do 4 laps in 1:30 or a little less at the beginning of March. I'm just not going to improve that much beyond where I already am.

5. This year the B-SIG leaders did assign the groups within each speed category according to lap times in hopes that each group would be more compatible. It seems to be working.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 7:30pm

#39

Joe S. (not verified)

Thanks Carol for your responsive and detailed answers.

Fri, 04/06/2007 - 9:45am

#40

Judith Tripp (not verified)

Good Point about the Age, Carol

It did occur to me that younger people might have a faster improvement curve so even if their 4 laps was slowish, if they worked hard they would see more improvement in speed than someone like me, in the A-19 in my mid-50s, improving, yes, but at a more gradual rate (and quite possibly having to work harder!)

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 2:13pm

#41

William (not verified)

If it's about the workout...

"I think for many people (myself included) there are three objectives in joining a group ride:

1) Learning better group riding skills.
2) Having fun.
3) Getting a workout.

I think that in most cases you have a better chance of achieving 1) and 2) if you're with a group that is riding slower than your 'natural pace' than with one where your conditioning is challenged. In particular, it is generally more challenging (and in many ways a better learning experience) to ride a good paceline with less experienced riders than with a more seasoned group. There are a couple of reasons for this:

-Less experienced riders tend to change pace abruptly (faster/slower, stop pedalling, etc.).
-They also are more likely to make sudden direction changes (""not hold their line"").
-They are often so focused on the wheel ahead of them, that they miss signaling (warning of potholes, oncoming traffic, double parked cars, slowing, stopping, etc.).

To avoid compounding problems in the paceline that someone ahead might cause requires that you are focused and attentive not just to what is going on ahead of you, but also what effect your response might have on the people behind.

If you aren't challenged by the speed of the group, you have more energy to pay attention and help cover for lapses of the people ahead of you by calling signals others neglected and smoothing out the abrupt changes in pace or direction.

So what about getting a workout?

There are plenty of ways to 'add work' to just about any group ride if you are stronger than the group median:

-Take longer turns or extra turns pulling (riding at the front). Particularly if there is a headwind, few people are going to complain.
-Try and ride at the front on downhills. This is a good way to push the pace without splintering the group. (As a corollary, avoid leading on uphills).
-If someone in the group is 'off the back' (has lost touch with the group) go back and pull them back on. This involves letting them sit on your wheel while you lead until you bridge the gap. Generally this means going pretty slow on uphills (to avoid making their problem worse) but really pushing it on downhills where they should be able to keep up OK.
-If there is a long uphill, it's generally OK to go 'off the front' and pound up the hill. Just wait at the top for the group to catch up.

Before trying any of this stuff, you should discuss it with the ride leader so they know what you're up to and can monitor your activities so that they don't disrupt the group.

Finally, if you still aren't getting enough, come early and do some laps of the park or peel off at the end of the ride and do a lap of river-road.

So...

If you're having fun and learning alot, I wouldn't worry too much about which SIG group you're in.

Thu, 04/05/2007 - 5:33pm

#42

willam (not verified)

a true beginner!

Hi, I was given a 21 grear bike now I need to learn how to use it. I live near Central Park. If you know a group that is for beginners like me please let me know.
Thank you
Penny

NYCC.org

Recommendations for fast C Sigger?