A23 STS New Hope ride
"Hi Hank,
Have you been on the Deleware Canal ""Trail""?
If yes what is the condition and road type best for it?
Thanks
Robert ""NTS"" Marcus"
Rob;
The Delaware and Raritan Canal tow path is unpaved for its entire length. While it is possible under dry conditions riding it on a road bike, something with wider tires is best.
We have ridden on road bike the Delaware Canal tow path from Lambertville to just above Trenton, but this is not for everyone.
"I rode it last, last summer on a 20"" x 1.75"" wheeled bicycle. Most likely there's one section you will need to detour onto Rte 29, it's easy, as the path become a rock pile for some unspecified length. It's great ridng.
Here's a nice cue sheet provided by the NJ state gov:
http://www.state.nj.us/njcommuter/pdf/drcanal.pdf
More discussion about D&R found here:
http://www.nycc.org/mb/thread.aspx?b=1&t=8169"
"Thanks.
I figured this would make a nice part of a two day trip. FYI, the PA side has many unusable parts due to last summers floods as I just found out.
Robert ""NTS"" Marcus"
While that may be true, the PA roads were fine from what I saw riding there 4xs last year. In fact, it was nice to see fresh pavement laid down. I wish the same smoothness would be found on Rte 29 heading towards Trenton; that needs some work. The D&R canal path is along the NJ side of the river.
Peter - what kind of bike were you riding (with 20 x 1.75 tires)?
"
Also ridden in the ENY 2006 century
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Looks like Ron is onto something spotting wet stuff to the south
"
I assume those meeting at Penn station, do so at 8:00am. FYI the summary listing on the home page says 9:00am.
Carl;
The website is ambiguous. We are taking the 9:14 train. I just sent everyone an email too.
John
It appears as if it is more likely to be hanging to the south. You might want to consider switching your rides to do the more northern ride tomorrow. (Just a thought).
88 - 89 miles
3689' vertical gain
19.1 mph average
"bonus points for making the train.
Here's a map and some charts for those interested.
Ron's MotionBased elevation gain is 50% higher than Hank's. I suspect that the discrepancy is due to the inaccuracy of the GPS system that MotionBased is using. GPS receivers are mainly intended to give a two-dimensional location, and the altitude is quite secondary.
"http://www.garmin.com/products/edge305/
""In addition, the Edge 305 incorporates a barometric altimeter for extremely accurate elevation and vertical profile data. ""
"
"Here's part of a review on the Performance site:
""I purchased the 305 for the altitude function. Its other speed, distance, cadence and HRM functions are typical of many much less inexpensive bike computers. Garmin advised me to purchase the Edge 305 instead of the Forerunner 305 because the Edge uses both barometric and GPS altitude for more accuracy. The altitude was so inaccurate as to be useless. Surprising, since I am very pleased with the GPS altitude measurement of my large Garmin II Plus GPS unit and my barometric altitude on my Suunto Vector Watch/Altimeter. As the Edge 305 altitude measurement fluctuates +/- every few seconds, which is expected, it constantly adds the plus fluctuates as overall elevation gain. Stand still for a few minutes, and it records an elevation gain of 100 feet. In addition to the small fluctuations every few seconds, over an hour on a loop ride, the unit has measured the starting point with an altitude increase of 70 feet, which also adds to an inaccurate course profile. Over a two hour run or a many hour bike ride the elevation gain and profilefor the course is so inaccurate as to be useless. Repeats of a 10 mile mostly flat run shows an elevation gain/profile of +500 feet one time and +975 feet the next time. The actual elevaton gain is about +300 feet. So the data is useless for comparing HR and cadence with course altitude profile and useless as information to share with friends and fellow club members about the elevation profiles for various courses. I contacted Garmin and installed a software upgrade, which provided only a slight improvement. Since altitude measurement fluctuation is expected, Garmin needs to find a way to add only real altitude changes to the course elevation gain/profile data."""
I think the Edge 305 may calibrate with GPS then use barometric pressure to record.
I'm also thinking that maybe I should leave the unit on for a while before starting a ride. I generally have it switched off until just before I start riding.
Motionbased does some data smoothing but whether this is on or off doesn't seem to change the outcome much.
But at the end of the day it is a training tool not a survey tool so I can live with it.
YMMV
GPS was absolutely was designed as a three dimensional system -- it must be because the world is not flat! Technically, it uses a geodic coordinate system, I forget which standard.
There are, however factors which affect its accuracy. For one, various error correcting algorithms used by civilian receivers are less accurate than those used by military receivers. In addition, civilian receivers can only receive coarse clock information (precise time is required for position calculations) further limiting civilian GPS accuracy. However, I don’t think that these “intentional” sources of civilian inaccuracy are responsible for the reported discrepancies.
The Performance Bike review indicates that will stationary the Garmin will start to accumulate elevation data. It is well known that atmospheric, ionospheric and tropospheric conditions can affect GPS accuracy, but there are algorithm ways to correct these errors. Just a guess on my part, but perhaps the Garmin does not snyc up its internal clock with the GPS satellites frequently enough, accounting for its stationary drift.
"I've consistently seen that motionbased reports much more climbing than my Garmin 305 does. At the end of a recent 2 day ride, my Garmin reported ~7000 ft of climbing. When I uploaded to motionbased, it reported 11000. Below is a link from the motionbased forum. Others are seeing the same results. One of my riding buddies has a VDO with altimeter. My Garmin and her VDO are typically within about 10%.
http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?topic=3531.0
BTW..be careful updating to the newest software for the Edge 305. It's known to kill satellite reception. You'll need to reinstall the firmware after the upgrade. This was the 3rd upgrade I've done to the unit and the only time I've had a problem. I found the fix and others complaining on the motionbased forum."
I had a blast on the ride Saturday - now that's my idea of a good time. It was very fast and with the mostly flat terrain, the group largely held together - at least until the last 15 miles or so. Then we had to drop y'all.
Thanks to you Ron for the Garmin stats - I love looking at those, especially the profiles of our hillier routes.
