Measuring elevation gain

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

How is total climbing commonly measured on a hill? Is it the difference between the start and end points or are all the acsents factored in.Case in point:Whippoorwill has an elevation gain of 310 feet. Shouldn't all the additional ascents on the way up be included? Topo software shows half dozen or so 30-40 foot climbs on the way up.This would seem to add approximately an additional 150-200 feet of climbing which seems more realistic.
Thanks

Anonymous's picture
Hank Schiffman (not verified)

"Bill, you have liquidated the Wicked Witch of the West and now stand before the Wizard of Oz, demanding an explanation. ""Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."" What you have uncovered is one of those nasty truths of reality; how can the average family have 1.7 children if we know there is no such thing as 0.7 child? There are some things, which are not clean and neat yet we want answers; Whippoorwill Road happened to be one. Whippoorwill is a great climb and a ride destination with its own Gestalt. I needed to establish its grade. This was an early effort in the hill grade project, I came up with a number that rounded off the 0.7 child to the next whole number. I subtracted the start elevation from the end elevation, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS UNREPRESENTATIVE OF THE QUALITY OF THE CLIMB. Yes, reality is how you define it. Thus I listed the grade for the first mile, which gave a slightly more representative value. But to do this justice you would have to list it multiple ways, defining each value. This is too complicated. All climbs vary in grade but some have up and downhill sections which throw off any attempt to nail down their grade. However, some are more easily fudged. If you look at the Mt Washington Road in Berkshire County you will see a second value. Because there is only one downhill section (2/3 the way up the hill,) I was able to subtract this section and give a more representative value of the overall grade. But do not be fooled. Going downhill then back uphill again gives the climber a break in the climb, changing the ascent from an apple to an orange. However, in an imperfect world this does reflect the overall feel of the climb more than had I not added this calculation. In profile, Whippoorwill Road from 120 looks more like the outline of a Stegosaurus. Any attempt to define its overall grade makes fools of us all. The very thing that makes this climb difficult to define is the thing which draws us to it; the changes in grade and ups and downs give it personality and make it the great climb that it is. What you want is the feel of the longest steep grade. So here is your answer. 0.28 miles from the start at Route 120 for 0.22 miles rises 92'. This gives you an average grade of 7.9% of Whippoorwill as it begins to reveal itself. Like complicated tasting foods and beverages, Whippoorwill will always resist a universal definition. You caught me trying to tell you it tastes like chicken."

Anonymous's picture
Donald Bear (not verified)

Talk about a can of worms (or better yet, snakes on a plane)! Why wouldn't you count every inch of uphill?! Haven't you heard of bragging rights? Skiers come home from Okemo & tell everyone who will listen (or not) that they skied a BLACK DIAMOND. They don't explain that blacks at Okemo are Blues or Greens anywhere else - they just know they did a black! So ... please don't short-change us on those extra ups (forget the downs).

Anonymous's picture
Hank Schiffman (not verified)

Counting all the ups is a valid point. That is what I did with Mt Washington Road. But when there are so many ups and downs the results are not equatable with those of the standard method. Plus, the difficulty in accurately calculating these grades becomes an exercise in just how much you care to compromise the results just to come up with some number.

As to bragging rights, do the STS 23 or any one of the uphill races. The first person up knows who came up second.

BTW, are you de bear that gets on my back when I go anaerobic?

Anonymous's picture
Bill (not verified)
Hank ..you are hysterical!

But still unanswered is why the chicken crossed the road?

Anonymous's picture
Steve Weiss (not verified)
Decimal Points

I believe Hank's Whipporwill example yields a grade of 7.9%, not the barely noticeable 0.79%.

Anonymous's picture
Hank Schiffman (not verified)
Correct, and corrected (nm)
Anonymous's picture
Bill (not verified)

Thanks for your input. BTW Topo software shows Whippoorwill @ 311 foot net gain and also shows 498 climbing gain which is more realistic. Just wasn't sure what everyone usually used. I guess if you' going straight up Bear Mountain there aren't any significant downs and ups so the net gain would equal the climbing gain

Anonymous's picture
Hank Schiffman (not verified)

"Yes, Bear Mtn presents a fairly straight forward situation. So does Alpine Hill.

As to Whipporwill from Rt 120 to the top, when I looked at my TOPO! map I got 2.56 miles with a 321' rise, giving an average grade of 2.4%.

The regional hill grades lists: 2.57 298' 2.2%

I have no explanation as to why my values differ. But the difference between 2.2 and 2.4% probably isn't important. Especially in light of the many ups and downs in the mix."

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