Does anyone know if an 8 speed Shimano front shifter can be replaced with a 9 speed Shimano shifter without replacing the entire crank set, chain, front derailleur and cassette? Thanks!
rear shifter
Tue, 06/27/2006 - 5:55pm
Tue, 06/27/2006 - 6:13pm
#1
More info needed
Your title, your post:
>rear shifter
>8 speed Shimano front shifter
>front derailleur
No offense, but what the hell are you talking about???
Tue, 06/27/2006 - 7:08pm
#2
No Offense Indeed
"What do you mean ""no offense""? Obviously you did intend offense. It was very clear what she was asking, she just switched one term. Why are you so cranky? Did she do something terrible to you? Take it easy ok? You're scaring people off. I don't suppose you'd like to have a message board used only by cranky people like yourself.
Janet, please accept Evan's apologies. What he meant to say was: ""Excuse me, but I think your question was a little unclear; perhaps you meant to ask something slightly different? If you could restate your request, I'm sure someone here will help you.""
"
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 3:56am
#3
Thank you. It is hard enough trying to keep up physically with rides when you're new, and to have questions shot down really makes it hard to want to be a member. Sometimes I see why NYCC has the reputation among clubs of being unwelcoming to novice riders and intolerant of learners - at least by the 'elite' riders.
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 4:58am
#4
Oh please...
Elite riders?
Tue, 06/27/2006 - 7:13pm
#5
Evan, she means she's got a front brifter from an 8sp group and now wants to replace it, with one from a 9sp group.
Janet, yes that will work fine. The front shifters are for all intents and purposes identical.
- Christian
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 4:58am
#6
"Thanks for your answer, but I do have a couple of more questions. Is it a typo, or did you really mean to say ""brifter?"" Also, when I called Shimano, they told me that I'd concurrently have to replace the front derailleur, cassett and crankset so that the new shifter would work smoothly. Any ideas on that?"
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 6:43am
#7
brifter & pair purchase
"""Brifter"" is a concise slang term for shifter and brakes contained on the same lever.
Shimano's advice is accurate so far as if you are really nitpicky about the performance of your drive-train. Naturally, they are going to recommend you overhaul all of their parts to have them match for optimal performance. Also consider their incentive $$$ given behind such advice.
On the other hand, Christian correctly suggested that using a 9speed shifter on your 8 speed setup should work just fine. More so since you are not an ""elite"" cyclist. ;-)
If you are still concerned - you can opt for a Shimano Sora shifter. It's their 8 speed indexed shifter.
Another thing to keep in mind, Shimano makes it really unattractive dollar wise to purchase a single shifter. For instance, compare the cost of a single to a pair (left & right), and the latter will not cost much more than the single.
That said, you may want to also consider purchasing a pair of shifters. Having that other spare shifter is good insurance. Purchasing a pair also comes with some extra parts like a set of cables and cable housing, taboot.
It will also make upgrading easier and less costly. If not already, eventually it will be more difficult to acquire 8 speed parts like notably *cassettes* and have less choice/variety among that speed ""class"" of parts."
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 6:56am
#8
Tiagra 9 speed Brifter @129 on sale plus 10% off through July 1 at Performance.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=104&subcategory=1194&brand=&...
&estoreid=&pagename=
Maybe change the rear cassettee rear only.
8 0r 9 speeds can be found by Shimano for $35-60 in Tiagra, 105 even ultegra, with a greater labor at the bike shop.
Good Luck
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 9:17am
#9
Janet,
Brifter = brake/shift lever.
If it's a FRONT shifter, you only have to change the front shifter. If it's a REAR shifter, you have to change the shifter, cassette, and chain.
I think Shimano wants you to buy some new bike parts. I'm ok with that too, but you don't have to.
- Christian
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 8:09am
#10
If Janet wants to replace the left shifter, for the front derailleur, which is what I think she was asking, she can use a left shift/brake lever from a 9 speed group without replacing everything else.
However, if she is replacing a right, 8 speed shifter with a 9 speed shifter for the rear derailleur, 9 speed shifter will not work with an 8 speed cassette. And replacing the cassette will require a new and narrower chain, but the rest of the equipment (crank, front & rear derailleurs) should work OK.
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 10:57am
#11
rear shifter
Thanks, Rich!
Wed, 06/28/2006 - 8:31am
#12
9-sp chain, crank and cassette with 10-sp Brifters, etc
"I'm using 10-speed shifters with 9 speed cassette, 9 speed chain and crank,and 10 speed derailleurs and it works fine. I used the alternate cable routing found on Sheldon Brown;s web site.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
Alternate Cable Routing
If you need to use an older Dura-Ace shift lever with a newer rear derailer, there is an alternate cable routing that makes this compatible:
Alternate cable routing
DESCRIPTION DESCRIPTION
Standard Cable Routing (A) Alternate Cable Routing (B)
This alternate cable routing will also let you use a 10-speed shifter with a 9-speed cassette. This provides a convenient upgrade path."
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 4:31am
#13
Making 9-sp right shifter work with 8-sp cassette/derailleur
"http://archive.roadbikereview.com/00/0EE8451F.php
Adjust the ""L"" screw on the rear derailer so the 9th click just doesn't happen. If the ""L"" screw is properly adjusted for the 8 speed cassette, you are good to go and the initial position on the shifter corresponds to the small cog.
In other words, turn the lower screw on your rear deraillleu clockwise (tighten) to limit the inward motion of the rear derailleur."
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 6:28am
#14
That's about the best solution! Thanks alot!
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 8:26am
#15
Actually, that doesn't work well. The rear shifter cable pull between Shimano 8sp and 9sp is sufficiently different to make this work pretty poorly.
Most other multi-speed games work well (Shimano 9/Campy 10, cross-brand 10 etc), but I couldn't even get this one to work with downtube shifters.
I *might* try this myself, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and definitely not to someone who isn't very proficient in making their derailleur do what they want. (eg, setting it up centered over the cassette etc.)
- Christian
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 8:40am
#16
Roger that!
In other words, the spacing between the gears differs for 8 and 9 speed cassettes. Naturally a 9 speed _indexed_ shifter is indexed for a 9 speed cassette and likewise the same is true for an 8 speed shifter-cassette combo. The shifters will move the rear der. and chain in different increments.
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 9:57am
#17
"but i thought that if the ""L"" screw is tightened, it'll work well."
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 10:24am
#18
"""L"" screw is tightened"
That adjustment is to only keep the shifter from throwing the chain into the spokes.
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 10:56am
#19
No, that will prevent the derailleur from going into the spokes only.
An 8sp Shimano cassette is 4.8mm from sprocket centerline to sprocket centerline. 8x4.8mm = 38.4mm total cassette width.
A 9sp Shimano cassette is 4.34mm from sprocket centerline to sprocket centerline. 9x4.34mm = 39.06 total cassette width.
The cable pull in the shifters matches, proportionally, these sprocket centerline distances. So you can't just use a 9sp rear shifter to shift a 8sp cassette.
All that said, a Shimano 9sp cassette will fit on the same wheel as an 8sp cassette, so just get a new cassette and chain (as well as the new shifter), and you're in business. A 9sp cassette and chain won't cost you more than $60.
Alternately, a JTEK Engineering Shiftmate #2 will allow you to use a 9sp shifter with an 8sp cassette, but the Shiftmate costs as much as a cassette, so this is a pretty crappy idea.
- Christian
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 9:58am
#20
pls see my reply to peter o'reilly.
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 11:00am
#21
Also, Peter O'Reilly, you know a lot about bicycles.
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 3:28pm
#22
The only thing that the bike shop in Tenafly told me is that they are bike mechanics and know what they are doing and are able to make the 9 speed shifter compatible with all my other parts. I hope they know what they are doing!
Thu, 06/29/2006 - 3:42pm
#23
Which shifter are you referring to?
"To summarize this thread...
A 9-speed left shifter, for the front derailleur will work reasonably well.
For a 9 speed right shifter, it may work, but definitely not acceptably so without additional hardware.
For that option you might as well upgrade instead to a 9 speed chain and cassette. It will also shift as well or better than the shiftmate adapter."
Fri, 06/30/2006 - 6:53am
#24
Just use the alternate cable routing
"The alternate cable routing worked for me with a 10-sp right shifter and 9-sp drivetrain. I built the bike myself from the frame up and the shifting is fine. If anyone doesn't think it works, please don't tell my bike.
Make sure cassette, chain and chainrings are the same. A 9-sp chain with an 8-sp chainring or cassette may not work.
Picture at:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html"
Fri, 06/30/2006 - 7:04am
#25
"Have you actually tried this with 9sp shifters and 8sp cogs? It really does not work well, despite Sheldon's willingness to describe it.
It might work ok for someone who is willing to set up their rear derailleur such that it lines up exactly with the center cog, play with the ""L"" adjustment and tweak cable tension frequently, but this is hardly a course of action to recommend to someone who evinces only a modicum of bicycle maintenance skills...
And a 9sp chain works fine with ""8sp"" chainrings."
Fri, 06/30/2006 - 7:26am
#26
10 for 9, 9 for 8
"
If shifting for the 10 for 9 setup works fine, that's a stretch to say that the same will be true for a 9 for 8 setup. It's not a quite an apples-to-apples comparison.
Here's why. 8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes are all the same total width, respectively, yet the spacing of gears within each respective cogset differs. No surprise here.
So what am I leading to? The differential net space between 10 speed gears versus those found on a 9 speed cassette is less than that found comparing an 8 vs 9. cassette.
In other words, it more likely that the suggested ""alternate cable routing"" will work for a ""10 for 9"" setup than a ""9 for 8 setup"", because the latter requires less of a hack in shortening the movement of the chain when shifting.
On another note, other than the consistently intentional misspelling of ""derailleur"" by Sheldon Brown, what's absent from his page is how to use a 7 speed shofter with a 6 speed setup. Very strange.
I think I know why.....
Why was six afraid of seven?
drag mouse from here
Because seven ate nine.
to over here to find out why
"
