"""Overheard: ""I would say that most, if not all, of the pros at this point use some sort of power meter. Ten years ago they used heart-rate monitors, but this is a more consistent number."" -- U.S. pro roadie Floyd Landis"""
This quote from roadbikerider.com
Sat, 03/18/2006 - 2:41pm
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 4:33am
#1
Less is the new More
10 out of 10 pro riders earn their livelihood on the bike.
Pro drag racers fill their tanks with alcohol, but I ain't puttin' any in my Camry.
Me, I much prefer scenery to data.
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 5:36am
#2
"Replace ""power meter"" with ""epo"". nm (nm)"
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 7:33am
#3
Perspective
NYCC is a big tent. We all have different needs. Many of our members wouldn't consider riding a road bike. However, we do have a many who are looking to push their envelope.
Can you imagine a backlash to the safety bike by those who felt comfortable on their penny farthings after getting past the steep learning curve of mastering it.
Some quotes predict the future. This one has announced an arrival.
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 8:28am
#4
When the price drops a little more, watch out
Power meters are making training on the bike less of an art and more of a science. Power is a reliable benchmark that can make comparisons of riders and rides more valid. 250 watts is 250 watts, whether it's cold or hot, windy or calm, hilly or flat. When the prices drop some more, even serious recreational riders will see the benefits. And if you are a numbers geek, and like being able to track your fitness progress with graphs and charts via the software, such as Cycling Peaks, it's nirvana.
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 10:42am
#5
Right On
The only people who have anything bad to say about power meters are the ones who have never ridden with one. Perhaps if you are “old school” and enjoy solo riding you won’t find much benefit from a power meter – everyone else will. When riding with a power meter, there is no such thing as a hill, there is no such thing as a headwind and there is no such thing as a tailwind -- there is simply power and duration. Couple this concept with an understanding of energy systems and the relative effects of body size vs. terrain and you have a rider who is always riding within his abilities.
Let me give some examples. A couple months I was on a small groups ride. One rider had some trouble will a couple of small hills and was particularly concerned with a longer upcoming hill, so much so that his attitude was very grim after blowing up on the smaller hills. What I decided to do was pace him up the hill. I kept him in a narrow, constant power range that I thought he could maintain for the length of the hill and kept him in the range. The result – we dropped the rest of the riders in the group.
More recently, I was on a ride where one member was having difficulty maintaining contact with the group, primarily due to a yo-yo effort that is endemic with most group rides: too hard on the hill and too easy in the flats. After this rider was dropped, I fell back to help this rider and by evening the effort, the rider had no trouble keeping on my wheel as I pulled him back to the group.
Think of this for a moment. Case 1: yo-yo effort rider can’t stay on the back of a fairly large group. Case 2: even effort, rider can stay on the wheel of a single rider. Why the yo-yoing? Without a power meter, riders don’t have an objective measurement of how hard they are riding and perceived exertion can be deceiving.
In a couple years SRM’s patent on the strain gauge spider approach to measuring power will expire. Thereafter, the price will drop such that riding with power data will be nearly as commonplace as speed data. I cannot wait for this day.
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 11:09am
#6
Like Audax
John, although we don't use power meters (too expensive), what you describe is the audax style of riding - a steady, measured effort that's sustainable over long rides. No hammered climbs, no screaming descents, and a steady spin on the flats. With the Audax STS this year, I'm already doing my normal June pace in March. Even without a power meter, it's possible to keep that steady effort - it just takes a different attitude and a little concentration.
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 12:34pm
#7
Right Off
">with a power meter, there is no such thing as a hill, there is no such thing as >a headwind and there is no such thing as a tailwind -- there is simply power >and duration
Kinda takes all the fun out of a bike ride, no? And I'm saying this as a (long retired) USCFer...
I'm not ""against"" anything, buy all the stuff you want. People in the bike biz gotta eat, too. It's just that I've always found that the ""Pros need it, so you do too"" rationale a bit silly. They're at the top of their game, and only a precious few basis points seperate the Stars from the Water Carriers, so of course they'll take any edge they can get.
""Serious recreational"" riders don't need to train scientifically. By all means do so if you enjoy it, but it's not The Only, or even The Best way...
Cheers!"
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 1:45pm
#8
You Don't Get It
"This ain't about ""Pros need it, so you do too"" rationale. Its about a tool and a cost-benefit analysis. Ever ride with a speedometer? Why? And it does not take the fun out of cycling, but then again, since you apparently don't have one, you'll never understand my point..."
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 6:24pm
#9
who cares?
"Old Timah may not have even a speedometer but I do. Or I should say I did. I've been riding without one for months now and I don't really miss it much.
When I used it, I use it not to measure speed, but to measure distance, of how far away from home base I'm.
>This ain't about ""Pros need it, so you do too"" rationale. Its about a tool and a cost-benefit analysis. <
Analysis for what?
Powermeter can be useful for all who are in need to improving their riding. But for those who're only out to ""smell the roses"", it's not much use. Much less ""needed"".
It IS about the attitude of ""pros need it, so you do too"" rational. To assume everyone wants to ride better and better is itself mis-guided. With the intense pressure we're in in our daily jobs/professional life Mon-Fri, how many of us ""need"" the same kind of pressure in our weekend activity?"
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 7:42pm
#10
yep
"> It IS about the attitude of ""pros need it, so you do too"" rational.
> To assume everyone wants to ride better and better is itself
> mis-guided. With the intense pressure we're in in our daily
> jobs/professional life Mon-Fri, how many of us ""need"" the
> same kind of pressure in our weekend activity?
i remember when i raced (early 90's) my hrm died. then my computer died. i rode for weeks without either. boy did it make a difference. i was actually able to enjoy myself on the bike. :)
don"
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 5:56am
#11
Well said!
"""To assume everyone wants to ride better and better is itself mis-guided. With the intense pressure we're in in our daily jobs/professional life Mon-Fri, how many of us ""need"" the same kind of pressure in our weekend activity?""
Well said! Except I would have written, ""It's misguided to assume everyone wants to ride faster and faster."" Faster isn't necessarily better.
We can all get ""better"" in terms of bike handling, safety, pacing, etc.
If someone is motivated only by achieving greater speed or power output, they will eventually lose interest as the aging process kicks in. But if the motivation is healthy exercise and enjoyment, many will continue riding into their 70s and beyond.
""Chainwheel"""
Mon, 03/20/2006 - 3:20am
#12
Oh, I get it...
... but I ain't buying it!
See ya on the road, Mr. Spock!
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 2:07pm
#13
I have several of these meters
"I can enjoy the graphs and still ""smell the roses""
SB"
Sun, 03/19/2006 - 5:23pm
#14
cheap power metering
Ciclosport CM 434 - easily fooled by pacelines, headwinds and tailwinds because it is a _virtual_ power meter (calculated from speed, body weight and inclination), but it is just perfect as a tool to avoid blowing up on climbs - consistent readings from day to day, climb to climb as mentioned above (250W is 250W) as opposed to a HRM monitor giving wildly variable readings seemingly dependent on moon phase, incoming or outgoing tide, conductivity of spit-on-the-chest-strap, etc etc.
150 bucks (wireless), plus another 20 for the wired mount if you want cadence.
Thu, 03/23/2006 - 9:28pm
#15
pros need it we dont
"i agree to the ""who want to get better and better"" comment. why? and why measure anything? for what? what do you do with that data? just ride for crying out loud ..."
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 9:54am
#16
We Are
165 miles planned for this wekend bud. As to what I do with the data, what do you care its meaningless to you anyway...
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 5:06am
#17
yet again... who cares
"Being modest is a virtue.
But despite your big headed posts…NO ONE REALLY CARES if you riding 165 miles this wknd.
On the contrary, should you decipher a way on installing your power meter where you apply your chamois creme - then I’ll be so inclined to join your 165 ride this wknd.
Heck…I’ll even pace you on any hills, w/ a big smile of course, that may come our way.
Just remember that when riding with your power meter - there is no such thing as a hill, there is no such thing as a headwind and there is no such thing as a tailwind.
Here’s a cost benefit that I strongly encourage you to use instead of your power meter:"
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 12:03pm
#18
this one gets my vote for best post of the year. :)
"this is toooooo good!
don"
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 12:40pm
#19
Why... thank you Don (being modest that is).
Sun, 03/26/2006 - 9:41pm
#20
of course the message board powers that be...
...deleted the paragraph that made ron jeremy's post so funny. oh well, for those that got a chance to read it, it was very funny (and straight to the point). ;)
don
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 9:58am
#21
Even non-professionals benefit
"Some posters on this thread assume that nobody but a ""pro"" has a right to improve their fitness on a bike. Some assume that the tradeoff between ""smelling the roses"" and ""getting fitter"" is a zero sum game. Some assume that power meters aren't worth the money for non-professionals. I disagree.
As long as it doesn't rule one's life, what's wrong with a little competition, even if it is only with one's self? So what if you spend $800-1,000 on a power meter, if it gets used? How many people spend that much on exercise equipment that gathers dust in the basement?"
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 10:12am
#22
What's wrong
"""As long as it doesn't rule one's life, what's wrong with a little competition, even if it is only with one's self? ""
There's everything wrong with that! Some of us just don't want that COMPETITION, especially on weekends!!!
Now, that's not to say others can't benefit from such competition and improvement, as long as the compatitive crowd leave us alone, without the powermeters!!!
""How many people spend that much on exercise equipment that gathers dust in the basement?""
I don't know. What I do know is, for a good percentage of NYCC members, there's no such thing as a ""basement"". Never mind thousand dollar exercise equipments that occupies multi-thousand dollar space in the city proper! ;o)"
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 11:06am
#23
These things are great
I am not a pro rider.Not even close! But its a great riding tool. Just like a speedo. Its a great thing for Steady State work like going up a hill. After you are become familiar with it you are able to eyeball a hill and pace yourself accordingly just using the Power Meter as a guide
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 10:44am
#24
It Gets Used... (nm)
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 12:05pm
#25
Please, God, let this thread die soon . . .
Fri, 03/24/2006 - 9:11pm
#28
improve your self, fitness etc.
"I don't own a power meter. I think they are still too expensive but I don't begrudge anyone for having or using one.
Used intelligently, Power Meters like HRM's can very useful and efficient short cut for improving fitness and performance in the individual.
Most NYCC rides are structured in such a way as to promote fitness and performance; the gradually longer and more intense rides effectively accomplish the physiological adaptation required for improvement.
It is for much the same reason that muscicians practice ever more difficult passages to improve and evolve beyond playing ""Happy Birthday""
The idea to just ""get out there and ride"" is akin to going to the gym and doing the same workout with the same weight all the time. Initially the body responds but then the benefits are diminished as time progresses.
I see it all the time in CP with runners and cyclists alike; bad form, same speed, same distance, same weight and same injuries.
Power Meters and HRM's are adept measuring devices and in the right hands can be a very effective albeit intense way to overcome limitations; as can a stop watch and a particular hill or flat section.
For those who just like to ""smell the roses"" keep in mind those rides you've been doing are a form of training and it hasn't been all that bad has it.
I suppose what I find most discouraging are the critiques made about those wishing to improve themselves as though they were competitive zealots with base ideals.
I for one must fall into that category as I am constantly trying to improve my methods wether it be cooking a meal, washing the dishes or working on a grand project, it makes things easier don't you think?"
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 8:53pm
#29
How many different ways to say non-competitive?
"""I for one must fall into that category as I am constantly trying to improve my methods wether it be cooking a meal, washing the dishes or working on a grand project, it makes things easier don't you think?""
You mean to say you're a perfectionist? Good for you!
For the rest of us who're not, constant ""pratice"" doesn't make routines any easier. It only makes ""easier"" things even more boring.
""Most NYCC rides are structured in such a way as to promote fitness and performance; the gradually longer and more intense rides effectively accomplish the physiological adaptation required for improvement""
I do find MANY of the NYCC rides fall into that catagory. (I don't know for sure if it's ""most"" though) A natural consequence of that is, by the time one's ""performance"" finally ""improved"" to the A level, all one can see are the butt of the rider ahead instead of the scenary!
When I join the club, I started in the low ""B"" level and ""improved"" to the high ""B"" within a season. But I soon realized the faster rides don't allow much socialization with fellow ""group-mates"". Everyone was too busy trying to push their wheel a couple inches ahead of the next rider! Even stop/lunch got shorter and shorter in the faster rides. I soon lost my motivation to move ""up"" and am forever ""doomed"" to be in the middle of the pack...
I don't see being a ""competitive zealots"" such a dirty lable. I believe everyone have the right to continue to push their own performance. And they have every right to be proud of their own achievement, so long as they allow the rest of us the freedom to NOT follow suite."
Sat, 03/25/2006 - 8:40pm
#30
LMAO
Wow this thread has ruffled the feathers of some of this boards bigger turkeys. Keep it going, may of us enjoy seeing these blohards sink deeper into their insecurities and several seem to have been touched here.
