some atrocious bicycling behavior today

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

"don't worry about who it was, it happens all the [email protected] time. this time on a road that everyone uses on a regular basis.

group infront of me blew aggressively thru a red light, one with little to no visibility of cross-traffic. a woman walking her dog proceeded from from the right, in the crossing lane just in time to hear

""GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!!""

and nearly driven into the pavement by this group.

Yeah I'm pissed because now when this woman gets in her car and sees me out on the road, to her, looking like one of the people in this group it's just a little more likely that she will afford me the same consideration she recieved.

no mystery to me why we are so vilified with this $H!T happening on a regular basis.

[email protected]"

Anonymous's picture
seth prince (not verified)

"let me specify my point, because it's not a group cycling skills-, or what-kind-of-person-drives-what-kind-of-car-for-what-purpous issue.

when aggressively running red lights and coming within fractioned seconds and inches of running down someone who has the right of way...

*** ONE DOES NOT YELL ""GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!"" ***

you stop, get off your damn bicycle, appologize profusely for being in the wrong, admit you are a complete idiot and ask if the person is ok.

"

Anonymous's picture
Mark Loftis (not verified)
more bad cycling behavior

I was riding at the back of a group on route 505 on Saturday when someone threw their banana peel onto someone’s front yard. Not quite the same as putting a pedestrian in danger but a classless act none the less. I would have said something to her at lunch but I fell off the back and didn’t make it to lunch.

Anonymous's picture
Eric Faber (not verified)
ATROCIOUS BICYCLING BEHAVIOR

"First of all Seth, If you mean I (as in myself) said ""get the hell out of the way"" you are wrong. The two riders Jonathan and I belive Etzu at the front who warned us I don't thinks said that either but yelled watch out.I was too busy trying to navigate my way out of the situation.

I digress.

Since you brought it up, what is the correct way to address a bystander who is crossing (Legally mind you) and a cyclist (illegally of course) and is just a few feet away from knocking her of her ass and into an emergency room?

I Think ""WATCH OUT! might have been better, But if someone was rude and said that, it's out of frustration for being in the situation. Nothing more.

Now can we all just go back to work and play nice?"

Anonymous's picture
Michael S (not verified)

"What everyone is trying to say and you keep missing is that you should not have been riding that way and that would have avoided the situation... but you're being too thick to note the diff between rolling through a red, blasting a red when there is visibility and blasting one when there isn't. Most of your arguments about others running reds are moot for that reason

You put yourself in the situation so the frustration should have been with your own stupidity and carelessness. The appropriate shout should have been ""we're such assholes, sorry lady"" Maybe this will sink through your self absorbed POV... it's highly likely you would have come off, maybe broken a clavicle and missed the racing season. While you were laid up you would have had time to contend with the lawsuits from the injured pedestrian.... and you never know, the lady could be walking with her large and scary boyfriend next time and he might snap off the pipe cleaners you ""competitive cyclists"" often refer to as arms. (competitive cyclists... what a joke, bet you're not that fast, can't ride in a pack but talk about it all the time at work) Real competitors stop their watches when they hit the bridge and spin down Riverside particularly from 125 on down... Good time to loosen up the legs, talk to your friends, practice whistling... whatever. Maybe you guys were still hammering to try and impress everyone else that you were passing."

Anonymous's picture
Carol (not verified)
And that wasn't all...

I also saw some rude, inconsiderate and unsafe behavior by cyclists out on the road today...groups bunching up at lights in front of cars (that were there first, in some cases), groups blowing through lights past pedestrians in the crosswalks, a group cutting off cars in order to get around a slow-moving truck.

Yeah, it was a great day for late January, but just because it's off-season doesn't mean we should forget all the good group cycling skills we've learned in the past. Clean it up so we can all gain respect.

Anonymous's picture
Michael (not verified)
And safety counts too

I notice a lot of this stuff and yes the respect of cars matters some (though who really respects the opinion of someone who burns 2 gallons of gas in their SUV to buy a quart of milk) but safety matters more. Bad behavior around cars can lead to crashes, bad behavior around pedestrians who have right of way can lead to injuries for both parties (and we do respect people who burn a little shoe leather buying that quart of milk). In the hood, especially coming down Riverside some of those pedestrians have the nerve to push strollers across the road when they have a walk signal... I would feel pretty bad if I smashed into them. Easy way to avoid it is to obey traffic laws. We're not talking about slowly blowing a red when it is clear... but just being careful.

I had the pleasure of riding out with a safe if disjointed group yesterday morning and riding back with a perfectly tuned line of riders that clicked like a watch and didn't do a simgle dangerous thing (if you discount the possibility of my heart attack on the climbs). Rumor has it that some of those riders I had the pleasure to be with will lead the B-SIG this spring... All budding B's should spend some miles with them

Anonymous's picture
seth prince (not verified)

please feel free to copy and post both of my messages onto the crca, prospect park peloton, or ebikes yahoo group email lists.

Anonymous's picture
Zoetemelk (not verified)
retracted message (nm)
Anonymous's picture
Neile (not verified)
"""However, I'd be lying if I said they got the point."""

Really ... ?

I'm not advocating posting it online, but if I'd appreciate you emailing me their names in case I have to deal with them in the future. Thanks in advance.

soupstone-at-mindspring-dot-com

Anonymous's picture
Eric Faber (not verified)
To all cyclists - Let's not be hypocrits

"Some points about the pedestrial ""almost"" incident yesterday on riverside Drive of which I was in the group and saw vividly.

I would personally like meet the cyclist in NYC who stops at every single red light on Riverside Dr.

I won't ever meet that cyclist because HE/SHE DOES NOT EXIST!

The woman with dog in question was blocked from sight by a parked car on the right giving the riders no sight line for which to antipate.

Growing up in NYC I have a built instinct for self-preservation when walking the streets. The dog walker saw it was green and didn't dare even look to the left. Is she at fault...no, but if she values her life it safe to look both ways. Didn't her mother teach her that?

This was a worse case scenario. Now due to the yelling of the riders this probably saved this woman and her dog some serious injury. If there was cursing involved it mostly due the immediacy of the situation.

Btw. a rider (NOT IN OUR GROUP) who witnessed this and castigated us for running the light and yelling at the woman, he himself blew through a half dozen red lights as well.

My point is this, these things are going to happen. Hopefully they will turn out in the end as well as yesterday did without the language. But let's be serious folks. Any cyclist who has gone up and down that drive 100 to 1000 times has had these ""Uh oh"" moments and it is the risk that one takes.

Anybody who thinks this incident is something rare is fooling themsleves.

What can we as compettitve cyclists do? The same as always, anticipate the unexpected.

Ride safe.

"

Anonymous's picture
Zoetemelk (not verified)
I agree with you but my point was about

Yelling at the lady (not yelling to get her attention - that's good) but yelling at her, as if she was at fault, after the near incident. All she was doing was out walking her dog on Sunday afternoon.

Anonymous's picture
seth prince (not verified)
that cyclist who castigated you

"was me. and i probably blew through twice as many as half a dozen red lights between then and the front door of my apartment building. you obviously miss the point, or are trying to absolve your own conscience. it's not about any 4-letter words. it's not about blowing red lights (read my reply to zoe).

i even emphasized that the participants in this event were insignificant.

re-read my original post, eric.

you yelled:

""GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY""

AT SOMEONE WHO HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY AND DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO APPOLOGIZE FOR YOUR IDIOTIC BEHAVIOUR!!!

your response here now underscores your lack of comprehension of your own actions if you think yesterday ended well. and speak for yourself when you say that everyone has had these, so nonchalantly expressed, ""uh-oh"" experiences.

and NO, it's not the risk that ***WE*** take. it is the risk in which we put pedestrians with the right of way. it is also the risk in which we put our own reputation.

What can you do as competative cyclists? gee, how about some of the crca, or any one of the multitudes of other uscf races in this area. apparently, you did not anticipate the unexpected.

btw,

""Anybody who thinks this incident is something rare is fooling themsleves.""

thank you so much for helping me make my statement."

Anonymous's picture
chris o (not verified)
It is called RIGHT OF WAY

"You conclude with ""anticipate the unexpected"" even as you say your group could not anticipate a woman with a dog crossing with the green light as you barrel through a red one because a car blocked your vision (you wrote antipate but you must have meant anticipate). How could you NOT anticipate a pedestrian crossing with the green on a weekend morning on Riverside Dr.?! And it is precisely because a car blocked your vision that you needed to anticipate this.

It is one thing to go through a red light and interfere with no one's right of way. It is quite another thing to blast through the light and interfere with another's right of way. There is no hypocrisy here, just basic respect for the RIGHT OF WAY.

Your efforts to blame the victim are mis-placed. She has to look both ways with a green light but you can just barrel through a red light without knowing what may be there. Why can't you just admit: we were wrong, that was bad, won't happen again. I guess because you don't believe these things."

Anonymous's picture
Eric Faber (not verified)
No Fault

First of all you are a weenie. Chris O.

I'll spell it for you W.E.E.NI.E.

Let's see now. You are telling me

A. You have never almost been involved in a red light issue with a pedestrian?

B. And never had a typo in an email.

And I can't admit I'm wrong? The nerve you've got!

It's easy to see why your an anal retentive rule stickler.
Try reasoning with yourself and sorting out the hypocrisy before you lash out at others.

Anonymous's picture
"Chainwheel" (not verified)
typo?

"""And never had a typo in an email.""

""It's easy to see why your an anal retentive rule stickler.""

That would be ""you're,"" not ""your.""

""Chainwheel"""

Anonymous's picture
chris o (not verified)
Rhymes with thick

Eric - As stated in this thread, you are thick as in unable to comprehend what others are saying.

Anonymous's picture
xxxx (not verified)
Umm

"This guy is making every excuse in the book. Just because all cyclists blow through red lights doesn't make it right. Bottom line, what you did was wrong, you probably scared the hell out of some poor woman and now you can't even admit that what you did was wrong because ""everyone does it"". Even his own version of events is appalling. Oh, and I got a good laugh about the ""but what can we as competitive cyclists do?"" Umm, you are riding down a city street! That was to funny."

Anonymous's picture
Rich (not verified)
Sorry, yer honor

A future conversation with a judge, based on the logic used in the previous post:

I didn't mean to run over that cyclist, yer honor. It's just that there are so many red lights, and well, with all those red lights, things are just going to happen. It's sorta like thunderstorms yer eminence; things just happen. What's a busy, important corporate executive like me supposed to do? After, all, she was just a cyclist, and I have this nice suit and an SUV! I mean, the cyclist didn't even look both ways before she proceeded through the green light. She just didn't value her life very much. Not my fault if that was her attitude. And ya know, with this big SUV I've got, well, it just gets worse mileage if I have to keep accelerating after stopping at all these red lights. It just takes so much more gas. Besides, yer honor, I tried to save that cyclist by honking my horn and giving her the finger before I ran the red light, but she still got in my way. Ya know, it was just the immediacy of the situation; that someone would try to proceed through a green light, well, that really surprised me. So really, I'm not responsible for any of this, nor do I think it has any bearing on how cyclists should view innocent, busy, important people like me. I mean, it happens all the time.

Anonymous's picture
seth prince (not verified)

"the specific event is not the issue. the time, date, location and individuals involved are insignificant. it's not even about blowing red lights (of which i am a great fan). it is about our idiotic behaviour and our image in the general public's eye.

i see groups of 20+. the riders in the front will go thru the yellow, dragging the entire bunch thru the red while cross-traffic waiting for its right of way.

or ride-leaders in central park who flip the middle finger accompanied by a hearty ""f*&k you"" to a pack of runners running outside of the running lane.

in many ways we behave just like the population of motorists who's own atrocious behaviour we all abhor.

btw, were you one of the 2 riding back on 9w from peirmont? i was the one with the hairy legs (soon to be shorn like lamb's wool) and pockets overflowing. if it was, it was nice talking to you."

Anonymous's picture
"Chainwheel" (not verified)
Give me a break!

"""it's not even about blowing red lights (of which i am a great fan). it is about our idiotic behaviour and our image in the general public's eye.""

So how is being a ""great fan"" of running lights not damaging to cyclists image in the public's eye?

I ask again: What is the position of the leadership of NYCC on cyclists running red lights?

""Chainwheel""

"

Anonymous's picture
Neile (not verified)
"""What is the position of the leadership ...."""

"I am not them, but I can't imagine how the answer can be anything other than ""Obey the law.""."

Anonymous's picture
"Chainwheel" (not verified)
You'd think..

"Neile wrote:

""I am not them, but I can't imagine how the answer can be anything other than ""Obey the law."".

You would think so, but I'd like to hear a club officer step up and say that (and mean it).

""Chainwheel"""

Anonymous's picture
Mordecai Silver (not verified)
See above

See Carol Waaser's post above. She's president of the club. Satisfied now?

-----------------------------------------

Date: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:01:20 PM
Author: Carol ([email protected])
207.237.74.64 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90; AIRF)
Subject: And that wasn't all...

I also saw some rude, inconsiderate and unsafe behavior by cyclists out on the road today...groups bunching up at lights in front of cars (that were there first, in some cases), groups blowing through lights past pedestrians in the crosswalks, a group cutting off cars in order to get around a slow-moving truck.

Yeah, it was a great day for late January, but just because it's off-season doesn't mean we should forget all the good group cycling skills we've learned in the past. Clean it up so we can all gain respect.

Anonymous's picture
Withheld (not verified)
I've stopped running lights

"I've had a bunch of realizations that keep me from running lights...especially in the city.

1) It just doesn't help our 'share the road' philosophy if we break its rules constantly
2) For some reason $125 on a ticket versus a rebuild or a new kit or a new pair of shoes or pedals just doesn't make it worth it to me
3) Show respect, get respect

I had a run in with a road raging driver who nearly hit me and my wife, and then proceeded to throw a cup of coffee at us and then pull over and threaten physical violence 3 times on Allen St. in late summer. A quick call to 911 and this dirtbag's car was blocked in by a NYPD patrol car and undercover van. I was able to turn around with a clear concious (and corroborated by eyewitnesses) that I hadn't run a light and that we weren't in the wrong. The cops needless to say took our side (finally!) and wrote the guy a ticket for littering.

A simple ""heads up!"" works if you're in the right. It's a shame if its harsher than that and you're in the wrong."

Anonymous's picture
bikesherpa (not verified)
Let's Use Common Sense

Of course the NYCC can't have an official policy that condones breaking laws and the club president couldn't possibly say that it's fine to run red lights as a matter of club policy.

That being said, the roads are designed and built for cars, not bikes. The lights are also designed for cars, not bikes. The lights in Manhattan are timed for cars, not bikes.

I think it's irrational to expect bicyclists to obey traffic lights in the same exact manner as cars. Do you really expect me to stop and wait at a red light on an empty road with no vehicles or pedestrians coming in any direction? Do you really expect me to make a full stop at every stop sign on an empty road?

I try be honest with myself and ride safely and considerately. Stop at red lights when it's appropiate and neccessary, and use common sense and good judgement when deciding to go through red lights.

Unlike cars, bikers use physical energy to build up momentum and make the bike move. Sometimes, when I've made a decision that I feel it's safe, I don't think it's fair to make me throw that built up momentum away.

Anonymous's picture
seth prince (not verified)
this is pathetic

"seems to me EVERYONE has missed the point. let me highlight the more pertinent details and try to end this

most importantly:
""...don't worry about who it was...""

let me repeat this because some here seem to have taken this as a personal attack:

""...don't worry about who it was...""

""... let me specify my point, because it's not a group cycling skills-, or what-kind-of-person-drives-what-kind-of-car-for-what-purpous issue.

when aggressively running red lights and coming within fractioned seconds and inches of running down someone who has the right of way...

*** ONE DOES NOT YELL ""GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!"" ***

you stop, get off your damn bicycle, appologize profusely for being in the wrong, admit you are a complete idiot and ask if the person is ok.""


and one, if not THE most important issue, as pointed out not by myself:
""Anybody who thinks this incident is something rare is fooling themsleves.""

but please let me continue:
""the specific event is not the issue. the time, date, location and individuals involved are insignificant. it's not even about blowing red lights (of which i am a great fan). it is about our idiotic behaviour and our image in the general public's eye.

i see groups of 20+. the riders in the front will go thru the yellow, dragging the entire bunch thru the red while cross-traffic waiting for its right of way.

or ride-leaders in central park who flip the middle finger accompanied by a hearty ""f*&k you"" to a pack of runners running outside of the running lane.

in many ways we behave just like the population of motorists who's own atrocious behaviour we all abhor.""


eric, this was never about you. i don't even know you from a hole in the wall. i still have no idea who out of anybody in that group was whom. so the next time i ride past while blowing thru a red light, i'll probably call out ""on your left"" and give you commeradic ""wudup brotha"".

now, let's all brace ourselves for the hors catagorie hurricane of lies that are going to breach the levees of george ""the president"" bush's mouth and flood the airwaves of disney's-, GE's-, and rupert murdoch's cheerleading squads."

cycling trips