Although I’m sure this posting will create many negative responses especially from women cyclists my intention is to get fellow cyclists opinions regarding what I’m about to write. My opinions and observations are not exclusive to me but are shared by several other male cyclists.
I’ve been engaged in various sports for 20+ years including cycling. Although not a member, I’ve cycled with the NYCC for a number of years. What I have observed over the years is that the women who engage in cycling as their primary fitness activity relative to other sports seem somewhat different from their female counterparts in other sports. I’m not talking about women who cycle once a month doing a 5-10 mile leisurely ride; I’m talking about women who are logging 75+ miles a week. These are women who would rather ride their bikes than do any other physical activity.
The differences I refer to are related to the physical and to personality. I don’t know if it is something about the sport of cycling that attracts these types of women or that these women change as they become more ‘serious’ cyclists over time.
Of course what I’m referring to does not apply to all ‘serious’ women cyclists but to a significant number of them many of whom ride with the NYCC. My observations are such: these women appear less feminine both physically and in personality than women I know engaged in other sports such as skiing and running. Perhaps these women cyclists have a higher level of testosterone than their counterparts in other sports giving these women a somewhat ‘manly’ appearance. The personality and character of these women tends to be on the aggressive and controlling side. Again, I don’t know if these are the types of women who are attracted to the sport of cycling or somehow these women change over time in appearance and personality.
As mentioned above, these opinions are not solely mine they are shared by quite a few other male cyclists I have talked to about this. I have even mentioned this to some women cyclists and some of them actually agree with my observations.
I’m sure that this posting will generate many negative responses aimed at me personally; that is expected. However, I am not posting this as a joke or to generate anger among my fellow cyclists but rather to promote discussion on this topic.
Thanks for taking the time to read this posting and for your response if you should choose to do so.
Best, John
Women and Cycling
I know at least a dozen foxy serious cycling chicks. I would arrange an intro, but you don’t seem like their kind of guy.
Good luck with all the responses. I dare say you will get a few.
Nice troll. Why have you been riding for a number of years with the NYCC if your not a member?
NYCC's well-kept secret is that your membership dues give you access to rides with all the passive, feminine serious women cyclists. That's what the password is all about.
I had to re-check the date of this posting. I was shocked that that it says 'December 27, 2005'. Thought this might be something from the 1950's. Or maybe an old posting from April 1st. To me, there aren't too many things a woman can do to appear attractive (feminine?) other than being physically fit. I've been riding with the club for two years now, and I have ridden with many women during that time and I have found that like most large groups, the NYCC membership pretty much runs the gamut as far as looks (a poor way to judge a friend) and personality are concerned. I would suggest that the poster takes his head out of the sand, and joins the 21st Century.
Having said that, I'm wondering how the guys measure up in masculinity from the posters viewpoint. Maybe we're all weenies in spandex.
By the way, Colleen is 100% right... pay the dues!!!!
George
I appreciate all your responses so far. As I have written previously, these observations are shared by other cyclists (mostly male but also a few females).
I also realize that most if not all readers/posters to this BB would not be willing to publicly agree with what I have written lest they be ostracized by the NYCC membership.
Some of you may think I’m ranting against women or more specifically women cyclists; nothing could be further from the truth. I love women, especially physically fit and attractive women as my girlfriend can attest to. Remember, these are observations garnered over 20 years of cycling. If I compare the women I have known who have been involved in cycling over this time period with women who have been engaged in other sports such as running, skiing and swimming then I stand by what I have written.
So you don't like NYCC women in tight spandex black shorts? Hmmm.
We could shred thee in many ways, but seems hardly worth the effort, as you are standing on flimsier ground than the River Road bit that just crumbled away recently.
Of course you're free to look elsewhere, we (if I may be allowed to speak for NYCC gals) are fine with the way we look.
"Perhaps these women cyclists have a higher level of testosterone than their counterparts in other sports giving these women a somewhat 'manly' appearance.
Like this?
From the New York Times article: ""At 5 feet 7 inches and muscular, Thomas says she is mistaken for a man several times a week. Called sir, she quickly says, 'That's ma'am.' She realizes she is not a stereotypical woman, so it doesn't bother her much. Besides, she said, she likes the attention that comes with being different.""
"
Maybe we just seem masculine in comparison to testosterone-starved male cyclists. Have you tried a different saddle?
YOU HAVE WOMEN?
You lucky Dog-on-a-bike you !!!
Send some my way PLEASE!
North Jersey has a severe shortage of cycling women.
John, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that some partical field research may be in order. I would like to step up and volunteer for a bit of paceline investigation up and down 9W with a little Coffee at the Spoon in Nyack. Hey get that Aussie guy to bring his friends.
Vin
Look - you are reporting your overall sense of the data you think you've gathered in 20 years of cycling. I take you at your word.
My sense of my data is different. Cycling women being among the most attractive athletes; weighlifters the least.
But I'd be really interested to know two things about your experience: (1) Has your data been the same for each of the twenty years? Or are cycling women trending better or worse during the time range? (2) Which sport harbors the greatest beauties in your experience?
Many more women have joined the ranks of the cycling community during the past 20+ years which is great for the sport. You pose some interesting questions. I cannot give you any trend analysis over time since I don’t have the data to do comparisons from year to year. I would say however that women who engage in swimming and those who engage in ice skating are probably the most attractive.
[submitted by troll]
I am curious to know what your scientific observations are for women triathletes.
"www.velonews.com/news/fea/9326.0.html
Scroll about 3/4 of the way down the page. I see nothing masculine there.
""Any man who judges by the group is a pea wit.""
- Kevin Conway as Buster Kilrain in 'Gettysburg.'"
. . . at work today, but there still has to be something better to do than respond to this fellow. A more blatant display of misogony you are not likely to find, maybe in some slasher/porn mag, perhaps. And I actually think the guy is serious . . . .
...this guy has very deep insecurities about his own masculinity and is trying to get some desperately-needed attention by boring us with it, as opposed to working it all out in therapy where he belongs. Let's move on to posts written by the secure and evolved among us.
Perhaps too late now, but for next December's club meeting and each December thereafter the program should be dedicated to celebrate the Festivus holiday. Or better yet, the club should sponsor an annual 6-day race event to be held at the original Madison Square Garden park (23rd and Madison), all done with a Circus Maximus theme. The Roman rambling roadie Jabopbo and the Spartan women could duel it out on the track. ..Just a thought..
"I can't help but wonder if those ""few other male cyclists"" are also non-members of NYCC, or perhaps the founding fathers of MA (Misogynists Anonymous).
This was better than Jackie Mason, and despite 4 days remaining in 2005 seems a shoo-in for Troll of the Year award.
"
I have been a member of the NYCC for more than 25 years. Unlike you, I’ve been a bonafide “card carrying” member all that time, that long, that many years. Been in organized sports since I was 9 – that’s a total of 45+ years, longer I think than you’ve been alive. Worked in the fashion industry, on Wall Street, and currently have my own business. No where throughout this life lived with women have I come across a group who are prettier, smarter, sexier, more interesting, more elegant, sharper, funnier, nicer, more unique, more fascinating, appealing, exciting, than the women who ride with the New York Cycle Club. My wife, who I met in the New York Cycle Club more than 20 years ago, is at the top of that list. But don’t worry, my wife won’t consider your comment an insult – she’s one of those smart women who ride with the New York Cycle Club who can differentiate between substance and inane babbling.
You mentioned you have a girlfriend. Really? Hard to imagine that. Did you show her your absurd posting? What does she think of it?
Yours must be the most idiotic posting I have seen on this message board.
Thanks for your comments Christy. Since you mentioned that you married a woman you met from the ranks of the NYCC I understand your zeal to defend the women of NYCC and hence your choice of a mate. However, if you think that the women of NYCC ”are prettier, smarter, sexier, more interesting, more elegant, sharper, funnier, nicer, more unique, more fascinating, appealing, exciting,” then I would suggest you widen your circle of women you know since clearly you have been going through life with blinders on. Of course, you never mentioned if you have a vision problem but what you see and what I see are completely different.
Yes, I am absolutely certain the women of NYCC are prettier, smarter, sexier, more interesting, more elegant, sharper, funnier, nicer, more unique, more fascinating, appealing, exciting, than any I have met anywhere in my life. I am 100% sure of that. I’m sure of that because I'm an active member of the NYCC, have been for every one of more than 25 years. Been riding with the membership for all that time. Have the good fortune to have met many members, both male and female. I’ve gotten to know them and know them well. You're not a member of the club. Sounds like you never have been. What do you know? From your posting, it's hard to answer that.
The circle of women I've known in my life includes some of the most powerful on Wall Street, includes some of the most beautiful in the Fashion Industry, includes professional athletes, professional entertainers, housewives, mothers, and women from every walk of life imaginable.
I find your banal nonsense and mindless insults offensive. You ought to be tarred and feathered by every woman in this club. I’ll help.
"An imaginary ""girlfriend"" and no luck with women, thus the bizarre and childish anger."
What I've seen crosses gender boundaries: Cycling is kind to heavy people. If you are carrying extra body fat, you will not last long if you are a runner– you'll pound your knees and ankles to death and quit, or you'll burn off the fat and continue- skinny.
There's no difference between a strong lean mesomorph with 20 pound in his or her panniers and strong but 20 pound overweight cyclist on an unloaded bike. There are many people in the club, (even among the A's), who have beer bellies, (or pasta guts), that you normally would not see in runners.
I often hear cyclist talk about eat-to-ride and ride-to-eat. I've never heard a runner say that they run so that they can eat. I don't know if it has to do with some physiological aspect of the sports or if cycling attracts people with more gusto for gastronomic pleasures while running attracts the ascetics.
To those who see misogyny in the original post on this thread I say: Grow up! Misperception does not equal hatred. I see no hate. He can be wrong without being hateful.
I was going to stay out of this idiocy, but I just don't know any better.
Neither Bill nor the original poster has really any idea of what he is talking about.
Thanks to Christy G. for his words on NYCC women. He is a true gentleman.
So, you've never seen a strong rider of either sex carrying a few extra pounds? Open your eyes.
You've never heard cyclist joke about riding so they can eat more? Open your ears.
Every time someone does not see the world as you do, it's not because they may have had different experiences than you, it's because they're hateful and should be punished? Open your mind... and your heart.
Bill - Fendergal merely said that you and Jacobin-boy don't know what you are talking about. Based on your reply, she seems to be right since she did not say anything about you and Jacobin-boy being hateful or needing to be punished. (I think Jacko maybe should be punished but that is another story and I am afraid he would enjoy it.)
It is more than a little interesting (okay it is not interesting at all but I could not help but notice) that since she does not see the world as you do, you see fit to scold her for not allowing others to see the world differently.
My comments about hate and punishment were meant for the posters accusing the original poster of misogyny, not Fendergal. I'm sorry for the lack of clarity.
I appreciate your comments Bill and agree with your observations. Most people that read my initial posting assumed that I was attacking women cyclists or NYCC women cyclists. The natural inclination for many people is to become very defensive and attack me personally which I expected. I’m a big boy; I can handle criticism. You seem to have gotten the gist of what I wrote even if you’re not in agreement. Too bad most of the other posters don’t have your degree of perception and comprehension.
Can we leave this thread alone 'cause it's SUPER DUPER BORING. I come to this message board to read about cool things like neat rides and new tires and pedals, not the pseudo-scientific musings of a weirdo tadpole who's just trying to get some creepy kicks.
If you don't like the channel, change it. If you don't like the thread, don't read it.
These are typical responses from a bunch of arrogant, think-they-know-it-all spandex-wearing weenie cyclists. Maybe if you actually read the initial posting and tried to understand what John Jabopbo is trying to convey you wouldn’t be so quick to attack him. You don’t have to agree with him but as Bill wrote previously open your severely-closed minds and you might actually learn something. I don’t agree entirely with John’s observations that most women cyclists look ‘manly’ but many of them are not particularly attractive. I’m a recreational cyclist but I’ve been a competitive runner and swimmer for more than 30 years. If you want to find attractive women athletes go to anyplace that has an Olympic-sized pool and you’ll find many of them.
Recently an article appearing in a holistic healing mag.stated,that with the increasing consumption of some performance enhancing herbs & vitamin supplaments ,there seems to be a metabolic change in the host ,where as some testosterone levels(TL) begin rising as the exertion level increases ,therefore as the (TL)increases and a level of fitness is attained ,in order to reach a higher fitness plateau an increase in the afore mentioned supplements is required and so on and so on. In the case of men ,this condition can lead to the depletion of (TL) in the body and may ,in time ,cause the over production of estrogen,which could result in the lessening of facial hair ,changes in the voice and possibly some loss of sexual drive .Conversely ,in the female, the opposite reaction may develop, deepening of the voice ,increases in body hair, and the sex drive of a twenty year old boy . I would hope this will help to alleviate the tension that the original posting on this subject has brought to bare on the membership. Happy New Year &see you in the Spring !!!
I know how to settle this discussion once and for all:
NYCC ladies, please join me in challenging our dear friend, Jabopbo to a fair, square fist-fight to decide who’s right. Whadya’ say?! Oh, or would that be too masculine for you, Jabopbo? How about if we throw in some mud wrestling. You seem like the kind of guy that might be into that…
"Jarred, above, wrote: ""...the original posting on this subject has brought to bare on the membership."" Uh, that would be ""bear,"" not ""bare""--especially in this thread!
Dare I point out ""bare"" and ""bear"" are homonyms in which word we find the slur ""homo."""
Everyone knows that REAL men don't wear lycra.
starve the troll
Yes, there is something wrong with Jacko's posting - its very insulting to women. And, as such, it is completely inappropriate for a public board. As others have mentioned it is obviously designed to create a bru-ha-ha amongst the readership. And, by the way, like many others, I would be willing to bet that Jacko does not and has not had a girlfriend for a long time (he protests too much.)
The troubling thing is that his comments are also somewhat accurate. Jacko is correct when he writes that many/most men feel that cycling tends to attract women who are less atttractive than average. I and many other male member riders have noticed it as well.
Socioloically, the interesting thing is that Jacko's posting also illuminates how much we leave unsaid in mixed company. It is indeed strange how it is perfectly ok to say such things in the company of men, whereas, in mixed company, such comments are derided and considered to be misogynous.
"Never are people more annoying, 'socioloically,' or otherwise, than when they speak as if everyone's male, and/or everyone's white, and of course it goes without saying, heterosexual. Appropriateness in 'mixed company,' is a decent test to apply to such ""thoughts,"" before they become utterances. I deny the accuracy of Jabopbo's claims and of your agreement, and would say so even if only in the presence of 'men.' Indeed I find cycling women be especially attractive, while at the very same time I'm at a loss to account for the strain of imbecility which seems to mercilessly attack a small if noisy fraction of men who ride, or at least those who frequent message boards.
Best,
Jeff
"
Ordinarily I don't bust in on other trolls' threads, but in your case, John, I'll make an exception.
You see, Raisehellfrida The Mud Maiden just biked into New York via a complicated route that ended up with Jersey City, the bridge to Staten Island and the Staten Island Ferry, and she tells me she's now looking for a man,
Her criteria are these: He's gotta ride a bicycle. He's gotta be into spending a lot of time thinking about women who aren't at the top of the beauty spectrum, which your postings seem to indicate you are, John. And the last and most important criterion is, he's gotta be free of venerial disease. John, I most sincerely believe you qualify.
Let me know if you're interested.
Your Pal,
Etoain Shrdlu
