I am trying to plan my winter training to best improve my speed on hills.
Can someone with experience in watts, cadence, hill grade, and speed let me know if this bicycle speed and power calculator is accurate?
Calculator - http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
This calculator suggests that by dropping 20 pounds I will pick up .6 MPH on a 7% grade hill with a constant 250 watts of power used at 85 rpm cadence. However, by training to increase my sustainable watt output by 50 watts I'll gain 1.2 mph. If I can do both, I'll gain about 1.9 mph in speed.
The calculator doesn't ask about gear selection...seems unusual to be able to calculate speed with just cadence.
weight, watts, speed
Thu, 11/10/2005 - 8:33am
Thu, 11/10/2005 - 9:02am
#1
Bob;
This website is very accurate and has an interface much more user friendly than Analytic Cycling. Its speed and power calculator uses an algorithm based upon height and weight to determine frontal area (and CdA), which is critical for predicting power even on a climb.
Side note on weight: my personal experience is that loosing body weight in itself will provide a power increase, or conversely, gaining weight can result in a predictable power decline, even in absolute terms.
Thu, 11/10/2005 - 9:05am
#2
great...thanks for the input(nm)
Thu, 11/10/2005 - 11:36am
#3
huh?
Less mass to pull up a hill. OK.
Smaller frontal area/less wind resistance. OK.
But how does weight loss = power increase?
Nice if true, but what's the rationale?
(Burp ...)
Thu, 11/10/2005 - 2:12pm
#4
Less stuff
More bloodflow to working muscles, lower core body temperature.
Sun, 11/13/2005 - 2:08pm
#5
Weight loss = Power Increase
Maybe they mean power to weight ratio, the best indicator of hill climbing ability. The magic ratio is 7.0, that's 7 watts per kilogram (2.2 lbs) of body weight. Achieve that and you'll win the Tour de France!
Fri, 11/11/2005 - 2:15pm
#6
gear selection
Gear selection is irrelevant. Has to do with power output.250 watts of pwer can be applied with SMALL CHAINRING HIGH RPMS or BIG CHAINRING LOW RPM. Cadence is more or a factor here because higher cadences produce more drag than lower cadences. If you plug progressivly smaller cadences into calculator you will see that speed in creases until max speed @ 1RPM WHICH IS ABSURD. This is so because at 1rpm windndrag from spinning is nominal
Fri, 11/11/2005 - 3:04pm
#7
Gear Selection
On a climb, the drag due to higher cadence negligible, as speeds are low. More important, optimum cadence and self-selected increases in individuals as their ability (and demand) to produce power increases. Therefore, if one is considering this hors catagorie climb, I highly recommend have a range of gears that allows for a cadence of at least 80.
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 9:34am
#8
wieght loss
Bob , just a thought I had.. by dropping 20% of bodywieght do anticipate any loss of muscle mass (power)?
E
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 9:35am
#9
wieght loss
Bob , just a thought I had.. by dropping 20% of bodywieght do anticipate any loss of muscle mass (power)?
E
Sun, 11/13/2005 - 4:37pm
#10
A question on dropping 20 pounds
"""This calculator suggests that by dropping 20 pounds I will pick up .6 MPH on a 7% grade.......
Are you really thinking of dropping 20 pounds riding a bike? Specially what I read from this site is that, the goal is to go from one bakery/passtry/panara shop to another.......
"
Sun, 11/13/2005 - 5:48pm
#11
Not on my rides... (nm)
Sat, 11/19/2005 - 3:16pm
#12
weight, watts, speed
OK, so I believe you. Please tell me how you plan to loose 20 lbs. I am really more interested in that part than the riding itself.
Sat, 11/19/2005 - 7:50pm
#13
Jenny Crank (nm)
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 12:59am
#14
or bikelimia nervosa.... (nm)
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 4:37am
#15
Losing 20lbs...
Lance:
Riding for me really doesn't drive the weight down (I ride about 250 miles/week in the spring/summer/fall. On a weekend I burn about 500 calories per hour on a 140 mile 21mph ride - I bike from my CT house to my Mount Pocono house a lot). I eat to maintain a consistent weight so that I can ride long distances on the weekend.
The way I plan to go from 190lbs to 170 over the winter is by eating a balanced diet of 1,800 calories a day - protein, carbs, fat, calcium, etc. And, tracking the calories. It really works.
During the winter for 5 days a week I'll be biking on an indoor trainer - about 50 minutes a day - and working out about 30 minutes a day.
Sticking to this routine is tough - but I lose about 2lbs per week - no cookies, cake, pancakes, pie, ice cream, etc.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 7:43am
#16
Bob, have you abandoned your Hotronics for winter riding for indoor cycling?
And what is the best way to secure the battery pack? I have the larger batteries and they shake loose, dangling dangerously near moving parts.
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 3:12pm
#17
You may need them next Saturday... (nm)
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 4:53pm
#18
MATH
"If you weigh 190 and ave 21 mph you'll probably be burning more like 700 calories an hour, maybe 800. Data from my powertap tells me that I rode 125 miles and burned 4600 caloires at an ave. of 18.2 mph (well used 4600 kilojoules which is roughly equivalent to calories, efficency arguments aside)and you weigh 14 lbs more than me and are going faster(!) so you would have to make more power (I averaged 200 watts to do that) and use more calories to do it (CDa arguements aside.) Thats the good news.
One pound is equivalent to 3500 calories so if you work out for 50 minutes on the bike and 30 minues in the gym you may be burning 700-800 calories a day at 5 days a week is just over 3500 calories or a lb a week. You'l have to up your aerobic exercise to 2 hours a day or cut your calories by 500 MORE Calories a day to reach your goal.
As to adding 50 watts if you are already doing 250 miles a week, that will be very hard. You'll up your w/kgs by losing weight but 50 watts is a lot to gain for someone that is ""fit"". If you are riding 7 hours @ 21 mph by youself then you can consider yourself pretty fit. Especially if you are averaging 21 mph heading from the Conneticut to the Poconos which can be considered mostly uphill. You'll rip the legs off of any cat 4-5 and should be competetive as a cat 3. That is my guess anyway, as a racer who trains between 14-25 hours a week depending on my periodization.
Oh yea dont count calcium in with your calories, it has none. Chow down on all the chalk you can hold down. ; )"
Sun, 11/20/2005 - 6:07pm
#19
The math is right...
"Thanks for the info. A couple of clarifications. My sustainable speed on the ""flats/rolling hills"" is 21+mph. The average speed on my CT to Pocono trips is 15.5mph - I can't jam up the long hills (7% grade) faster than 10mph on a consistent basis. So, there is my opportunity. I need to generate more power and for longer periods of time.
I use my polar heart rate watch to count calories burned - it says 500/hour on the long bike rides, but who knows how accurate that is. Seems about right.
Regarding weight loss: with my current muscle mass I figure I burn 2,500 calories daily without workout/ riding. My best estimate is that 50 min on a bike and 30 min working out 5 days/week burns 2,500 calories/week. So, with an 1,800 daily calorie diet I run a 7,400 calorie deficit/week or about 2 pounds. I used this strategy two years ago and lost 2 pounds/week.
On the subject of weight, watts, speed: this winter (for the first time) I'll be using an interval training strategy to train just above and below my Lactate threshold in hopes of raising my LT so that I can generate more power before going anaerobic. This will be very painful on an indoor computrainer - but hey, you only live once. I don't know my watt output yet, but I'll baseline it when the computrainer arrives and target a power (watt) gain and LT gain.
Here is one of the several articles I am basing my interval training on - http://www.ultracycling.com/training/intensity_training.html
Thanks again for the input.
Bob
"
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 9:36am
#20
wieght loss
Bob .. do you anticipate any loss of muscle mass (power) by dropping that much wieght?
E
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 11:47am
#21
weight/muscle loss...
I don't know if I will lose any muscle mass with the loss of 10% of my body weight. My plan is to eat a good balance of proteins and continue to workout during the weight loss. My BMI (body mass index) suggests that an ideal weight for my height is between 162 and 177 pounds, so the weight loss target of 170 pounds isn't too dramatic.
Regarding the underlying question - will 20 pounds in weight loss result in a loss of power? I don't think so, but I don't know. I'll be using a computrainer (www.racermateinc.com)and will take a baseline on my power (watts) output and track it over time as I do indoor interval training and drop the weight. Hopefully, my power output will increase as a result over the next 12 weeks.
Thanks for the thought.
Bob
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 1:47pm
#22
Muscle Loss <> Power Loss
Power loss due to reduced muscle mass should not be a concern, as the ability to produce aerobically power is not associated with muscle size. Larger riders have great absolute power not because they have more muscle mass but because they have larger cardiovascular systems.
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 2:55pm
#23
Muscle mass isn't important
"Right, just look at Tyler Hamilton."
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 6:46pm
#24
More Muscle
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 12:01pm
#25
Watts
"Bob, here's an idea for interval training on the Computrainer: see how long you can hold your power at about 746 watts (i.e., one horsepower). When you're able to keep it there for a significant amount of time (let's say, 20 seconds), we can call you ""One-Hoss Shay.""
Mordecai ""sorry, I'm feeling punny today"" Silver"
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 1:29pm
#26
"I like ""courter hoss"" betta(nm)"
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 2:56pm
#27
It takes five minutes to eat one of these hamburgers, but between 30 and 45 minutes of hard cycling to burn these calories!
Big Mac = 560 kcal
Wendy's classic double with cheese = 700 kcal
Burger King = 700 kcal
Mon, 11/21/2005 - 8:17pm
#28
Additional Numbers
Looking through my data files, I found two instances where I compared power meter data to Polar's HR based algorithim for determining calories burned. Both were 1.5 hour rides, one easy (CP recovery level laps), one moderate (the New Paltz->Lake Minnewaska->Clove Road->Mohonk New Paltz loop). Being the same realtively short time durations, cardiac drift effects are minimized.
For the easy 1.5 hour ride the PM measured 708 kJ which is roughly equal to 754 kcal (I assume 22.5% efficiency; therefore 1 kj = 1.065 kcal). The Polar HRM estimated 594 kcal.
For the harder 1.5 hour ride the PM measured 1362 kj, which is roughly equal to 1451 kcal. The Polar HRM estimated 1200 kcal.
In both instances the Polar estimated lower by approximately the same amount.
Regarding your approach to substantially employ intervals, consider that current thinking in various circles favors a high volume of L3/L4 training. This certainly burns more calories. For example, in a very hard hour I have burned 1150 kj (1225 kcal) but a very hard set of six five minute intervals will only burn about 700 kj (745 kcal).
Thu, 11/24/2005 - 7:12am
#29
More Numbers
I just calculated that at a Michael Rasmussen chic weight of 150 pounds, I could climb Bear Mountain in 18:30 and Whiteface in 45:30 without having to substantially increase my power. No turkey for me today. Tomorrow, to CVS for some pseudofed and drano...
Sun, 11/27/2005 - 11:02am
#30
To Bob Shey and the rest - Thanks for the enlightment
Hi Bob Shey,
Thanks for your reply, way back when I posed a question, on your plan to loose weight. And thanks everyone else on this thread. It has been informative for sure. Good luck to you all and Happy thanksgiving :) (albit belated!)
