NYCC Programs

19 replies [Last post]
Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

"

As most of you know, Kim Savage has worked diligently as the program participation ""bike shop liaison manager"", for, during 2005.
Unfortunately, life [Kim’s job] has gotten in the way of her continuing in that role. We need someone to step up to the plate and take over. It is a fun and interesting position putting you in touch with New York’s many bike shop [owners].
If you are interested please contact me ASAP[[email protected]] so we can get the ball rolling for 2006.
Kim, all the best wishes on behalf of the club, and myself. Thanks for the great job you did, the fun and rewards you secured for all the members.
It’s you club. Isn’t it time for you to step up and participate in this rewarding position?
hal eskenazi-vp programs
"

Anonymous's picture
Derrick (not verified)

Chaim, I totally agree with you that this was a disgraceful posting. No-one in the club should have to tolerate such barracking. Maybe we should go one step further and bar postings from this ip address. Derrick

Anonymous's picture
hal eskenazi (not verified)
bike shop liaison manager

so...is anybody out there?

Anonymous's picture
Richard Rosenthal (not verified)
I wish the club would abandon this somewhat blackmail practice

"Likely, bike shop owners are are not comfortable saying ""no"" to this even though, insofar as I've followed this, it hasn't been a worthwhile expenditure for them. They don't dare risk being bad mouthed or suffering bad PR.

Because this smacks of blackmail, however lightweight and innocent, I wish the club would desist from doing this. It got along for c. seventy years without it. Or is it that important and useful to our members to get freebies that they would lend themselves to this, however lightweight and innocent, blackmail?

Or is it that the meetings need the freebies to attract attendance?"

Anonymous's picture
Evan Marks (not verified)
Agreed (nm)
Anonymous's picture
Peter Hochstein (not verified)
I also agree.

We get a 10% discount at participating shops. That ought to be enough.

Anonymous's picture
Peter Hochstein (not verified)
I also agree.

We get a 10% discount at participating shops. That ought to be enough.

Anonymous's picture
Neile (not verified)

I very much appreciate the work you and Kim have done, but if the shops are willing to come to a meeting to talk about latest gear and acquaint membership the types of goods/services they provide, that's great. I can do without the freebies.

Anonymous's picture
hal eskenazi (not verified)
so get involved (nm)

I find it extremely interesting that those who contribute/participate the least are the first to criticize. even more interesting is how they talk and know not a thing about what they say. it’s called foot in mouth disease. if you attended the meeting you might know how the bike shop’s felt about being there. or maybe if you volunteered [god forbid] to manage the program [or something else] you’d see the positive feelings the bike shop owners that towards it. if any of you knew anything about business, or maybe just stopped to think for a minute [ a concept in itself ], before shooting your mouths off, you’d understand the value they receive for the for the small amount of money it costs them to be in front of an audience that is 100% their marketplace, san the bartender. no blackmail, no blacklist. Just owners wanting to be involved with the community they serve, and at minimal costs. the club existed without many things for 70 years, even the message board. however, we do try to move forward [don’t we?] and be a little innovative. we’ve developed a program that the members like, ads to the fun and the bike shops like. I guess we can’t please everyone, especially those that don’t show up or contribute. however, just so you know, we also attract attendees with [I hope] interesting meetings/presenters.

Anonymous's picture
We, the volunteers (not verified)
Dear Hal -

1) It is frustrating being a board member, frequent rider leader or all around volunteer. For a long time, I was all of those and now I am none of those. Life changes and demands on one's life changes.

2) If you take any of those roles, expect some critism and expect to let it it role off your back.

3) Many of the people making some of these comments have been substantially committed volunteers. These include a former club president, former ride coordinators, several frequent ride leaders and all around volunteers. These people collectively represent MANY years of volunteers and I would advise you to listen to their collective knowledge of what they offer instead of being dismissive of them based on your brief knowledge of the club.

4) I'm not going to argue the merits of this issue. I am going to argue the flip and callous treatment that you have accorded to some of these posters. You owe them not only an apology but you should also give their point of view a fair hearing.

Anonymous's picture
Chaim Caron (not verified)
Coward!

"You coward! Why don't you come out from behind your anonymous post and identify yourself?

You have a lot of nerve to claim that Hal has accorded some posters flip and callous treatment when you won't even identify yourself. What's the matter? Are you afraid of something? You are the one who owes an apology, not only to Hal but to the entire club. If you have something to say, then say who you are. Speak up!

Why do you call yourself ""We the volunteers""? Are you claiming to represent all the volunteers in this club or what? You certainly do not represent me. Speak up and identify yourself or retract your statement.

This is what you wrote from behind the apron strings of your presumptuous anonymous id:

4) I'm not going to argue the merits of this issue. I am going to argue the flip and callous treatment that you have accorded to some of these posters. You owe them not only an apology but you should also give their point of view a fair hearing."

Anonymous's picture
We, volunteers (not verified)

This isn't about me. This about the contemptous manner one board member initially treated a number of people who posted, people who had volunteered a great amount to this club. I just spoke up for them collectively, for they are all friends of mine.

Hal was gracious enough to apologize and to listen and to find out the contributions of the people that he was unaware of. We can all learn a little every day.

What I wrote wasn't about anonymous posts. It was about a little respect for ALL volunteers, whether recognized or unrecognized. I don't seek further recognition.My name isn't important because this isn't about me or anything I did. It is about what others have done for the club, repeatedly and over many, many years.


Anonymous's picture
Chaim Caron (not verified)
You're Still Anonymous...

"It's too bad you're still posting anonymously. If you had posted your real address, I would have emailed you privately. However, I can only address you through this message board so I will respond publicly.

>This isn't about me.
You're right--it's about the fact that you flamed someone in the course of your anonymous post. Don't try to couch your original post in terms of ""respect for all volunteers"" who are friends of yours. What hogwash. Perhaps I too am a friend of yours but I don't know because you won't tell us who you are.

You say ""It was about a little respect for ALL volunteers"" but you obviously have no respect for all volunteers, unless you don't consider Hal to be a volunteer.

You say you didn't seek recognition but now your name *is* important because you flamed someone on this message board. You say you don't seek recognition but you claim to speak for all the volunteers, so I repeat: identify yourself or retract your statement."

Anonymous's picture
We, volunteers (not verified)

"1) ""Maimonides is famous for enunciating eight distinctive levels of giving. Giving anonymously occupies a high position; the second level of giving is ""where the donor doesn't know to whom he gives and the recipient doesn't know from whom he receives""

2) I didn't ""flame"" anybody. If anything, my comments are far more considered than half of what passes for polite discussion on this board. I just asked for some respect for other volunteers, not even myself. If asking respect for other volunteers who have historically volunteered is flaming, 2005 is 1984.

3) Let's stop this thread here. It's become more about some obscure Talmudic point than Hal's efforts to find a volunteer and other members discussing whether there is a need for that volunteer. The world is whole again, mended invisibly, and there is no need to make another tear in the fabric.

"

Anonymous's picture
Richard Rosenthal (not verified)
You just KNOW I'd have to be heard from on this....

"Hal, Hal, Hal, dear Hal:

I am NOT disparaging the meetings. Shall I repeat that? OK, I will. I am NOT disparaging the meetings.

And I do withdraw my unthinking remark about the club getting along for seventy years without shops contributing freebies at meetings. You adroitly skewered it for and with precisely the right reason.

What I am disparaging is the club's asking/suggesting /hinting/letting it be known other shops bring freebies...or, for that sake, even allowing them to lest this get to me a mano à mano between shops competing for our love.

Have you ever been to a fund-raiser for voluntary contributions where people are called upon by name to make a contribution or even where someone's name and amount is publicly announced in a way to embarrass/humiliate others to top, or at least join him? Those make me squeamish; not you?

As for your knowing truthfully how shop owners feel at being, granted only nominally, extorted, let me ask you this: when you've been served a bad meal at a restaurant and the waiter or captain asks how is everything, do you criticize the meal or the service or simply say, ""Fine."" Even more, do you seek out the owner/manager to complain?

Do you believe for a nanosecond a shop owner/manager would complain knowing the club represents his (potential) customers?

You speak of the positive feelings the owners have regarding their attendance at the meetings. Are you suggesting their feelings would be less positive if they were not invited/asked/expected to bring freebies?

You speak of the value they receive for being ""in front of"" (sic) an audience that is 100% their marketplace (sic). Do you believe they would value this less if they were not invited/asked/expected to bring freebies?

That their cost may be modest, even nugatory (although I don't know that, say, $200 is so modest), is beside the point. Your note admits it's play-for-pay and that's what I object to, in principle.

Ah, yes, principle...what a concept. By your terms of debate, to be consistent, those who've not run for political office or served the government or an NGO in some capacity have no business criticizing the government. That'll sure cut down on all the naysayers and whiners out there, won't it?

The post that precedes this one notes those whom you criticize for criticizing because, according to you, they haven't made a contribution to the club, have, in fact, served the club. You've been the club's, admittedly diligent, program director for two years. One of them was the club's program director for longer.
"

Anonymous's picture
Jim Reaven (not verified)
I guess that meeting space is the problem here

Hal, Dave, Stan and others do everything they can to get people to come to the meetings and pay for dinner, or pay for something. I know that many other people have made enormous contributions to the club. As I understand from some comments I have heard, and from common sense, the specific problem with the meetings is that, since most cyclists don't drink, we are a very marginal customer for Annie Moore's. They give us a huge reserved space in return for very little. I used to have a girlfriend who didn't drink, but whenever she went into a bar, whether she ordered food or not, she always ordered one, or two, soda waters with lemon, because she didn't want to be seen by the bar or by her friends as a mooch. Is it reasonable to think that a person can enjoy a reserved space with tables, bathroom, heat, etc. for several hours in midtown Manhattan and not pay at least to the extent of a couple of drinks...whether they are actually consumed or not? If the raffle of mostly cheap stuff provides enough entertainment value and participatory spirit to encourage even two or three more people to pay $20 for dinner and a raffle ticket, it's worth it to us (or to Annie Moore's). When a club based in Manhattan is trying to exist at the ragged bottom edge of the economy and if it wants convenient and comfortable facilities, some help from related businesses is required. I'm sure that all other ideas for enhancing the income from the meetings would be appreciated. This isn't directed at anyone...I don't know anyone else's spending habits. I'm just guessing about most of this, but it makes sense to me.

Anonymous's picture
hal eskenazi (not verified)
bike shop liaison

well now, thank you.
this is the kind of positive, thought provoking, dialogue I want to hear.
when I posted for, “bike shop liaison”, this is not what I was expecting.
however, that is ok. i’ve learned to expect the unexpected.
I want to hear people’s opinions with positive ideas and concepts as to how
we can move forward and improve things that may need work. we must always be in a state of change to survive. I don’t believe anything in a club like this should be engraved in stone.
I don’t have to agree with you, nor you with me, as open disagreement, in a respectful
way, leads to positive results, whether or not we, individually, agree with the “final” decisions.
everyone’s voice is important and needs to be heard.
if my previous note offended anyone, I apologize, as it was not my purpose.
I realize that there are many people who have made substantial contributions to this club long before I arrived. I honor and respect those contributions. and the individuals who made them, while trying to build upon their contributions. I try to learn form everyone and welcome people’s ideas. this will never change. I would just appreciate that someone asks for some facts before they tear into an issue. knowing the facts brings real suggestions.

Anonymous's picture
Richard Rosenthal (not verified)
A radical idea.

If, as seems to be the case, only c. 3% of the club membership attends its monthly meetings, and if, as expressed, there is some dis-ease about getting a restaurant to put aside valuable private dining space for such low turnouts, and if there is some difficulty in putting together monthly programs, perhaps it's time to at least consider having meetings bi-monthly--every two months--instead of every month. With the advent of weekly G-grams (a neologism I propose to honor Gabriella) and the online message board, monthly meetings certainly are not necessary for communication. For general sociability, yes; but not for communication.

Anonymous's picture
LynnB (not verified)
how can we improve annie moore's

I for one don't mind the space.
I don't drink much, but it don't bother me.
I loove the shepherd's pie.
Most of the programs are pretty good.
But one major thing is missing-
Cookies/ desert.
Maybe the bike shops can give away their bars for desert?
Or each month a bike shop can showcase an expensive bike for us to feast our eyes?

Anonymous's picture
Roscoe Geo (not verified)
Improve Annie Moore's?

Despite Thomas Wolfe return to O'Haras or the equivalent. . . .

cycling trips