"I've seen the following happen on lots of B rides.
Scenario A. Cyclist encounters a hazard (e.g., hole.) Calls ""hole!"" points to the hole with left or right finger and swerves in the opposite direction.
Scenario B. Cyclist encounters a hazard (e.g., hole.) May or may not call ""hole!"" Does not point out the hole.
What's wrong with this picture? There's a car coming behind, which may be heading for the very space that the cyclist is swerving into. Driver may not have a clue that cyclist is about to swerve or why he just swerved. In addition to the danger to the cyclist, there's the issue of the message we send to others about our behavior.
I noticed a similar situation when we swerve to avoid slower cyclists or peds in the roadway and give the ""arm crooked behind back"" signal.
My wife and I drove (a car) up 9W a few months back and we both noticed this. She was outraged and horrified. I'm just concerned.
So, what's the proper protocol for signalling our intentions to both our fellow cyclists and to motorists. I see a challenge in that often, our hazards are on the right, which we point out with our right hands. If we were to simultaneously signal a left swerve with our left arms, we'd have both hands off the bars.
So, what does a safety and community minded cyclist do?"
Swerving and Signalling
"here's my take...how i used to ride with other racers (30+ pounds ago). say we're pacelining along 9w. none of us are afraid of overlapping wheels. none of us are afraid of bumping into the others. why? because we trust each other. if you're at the front of a paceline, you need to look ahead...far ahead. and if you see something that you need to go around, the person in front of the paceline needs to first look back to see if there are any cars behind - THEN AND ONLY THEN, the person in front needs to ease the paceline over and when you come close to the obstruction, yell ""HOLE RIGHT""...then you ease the paceline back on course.
club rides scare me. why? because sig or no sig, too many riders (including many of the faster ""a"" riders) lack some pretty fundamental skills (like how to behave in a paceline; how to push off the guy in front of you without freaking out if you overlap wheels; how to nudge someone when they come too close; how to properly respond if you're nudged without taking everyone down; and the list goes on).
if issues like what isaac points out scare you, it's time for some race coach training. get a license and join the crca. do it for the free training, even if you have no intention of racing. the skills you pick up will help you and it'll save someone else's (even maybe your own) hide...or their life. being a seasoned racer and paceline rider is no guarantee you won't get hurt or killed. it's a dangerous sport since you're sharing the road with vehicles that can squash you in an instant.
i remember a paceline back around 1994. there were four of us. we pacelined up to nyack at a very fast pace (two of us were cat3 racers and the other two were cat2). on the way back the sun was behind us and the lead paceline rider (a cat2) didn't see a 2"" ledge left by a construction crew doing repairs on a short stretch of the road. he yelled ""HEADS UP"" and jumped over the ledge. mind you we were going at least 26-28mph (it's the long stretch long after the major climbs on the way back from nyack). i was right behind him and i didn't have time to jump so i went down. the guy behind me also went down. the guy at the back was fast enough to brake/swerve (and maybe jump over part of the third guy). first and fourth guys went home without a scratch on them. i went to the hospital half dazed (nothing broken but my helmet - and a mostly trashed set of wheels and frame). the third guy just got a lot of road rash but was able to ride home. ironically, the first and fourth riders did not have helmets on - neither fell. :)
i was back on the road in about three weeks and riding with the same folks that were on the paceline, including the first guy who did all he could to protect the rest of us. the point of this all? it's all about training and trust in the others you ride with. i'm sure there are many ""a"" riders who are strong but have little (or no) racing skills. that scares me. it's enough of a reason for me to avoid riding with them (if i ever do get back up to ""a"" speed on club rides).
get a license. join the crca. get the skills and confidence you need. then ride with those you trust - and avoid riding with anyone who doesn't have the necessary skills and confidence to properly handle riding in a paceline on 9w.
don (former cat3 racer - on a long and slow comeback)"
Don, thanks for the advice, but it's not just about me. As an advocate, I feel that the safety message needs to be hammered home to everyone on the road, or at least everyone in the club. I can join the CRCA, etc., but that still leaves thousands of people at risk and degrades the public image of cycling and cyclists.
...i just wish the nycc would cover the price of a pro coach to show up for one ride per sig. this way the points about proper riding technique can be passed along to all riders - irrespective of their riding level. the biggest reason i joined the crca was to learn to ride a bike the right way. i never bothered with the sig because at the time (early 90's) there were some sig leaders that needed to be siglets themselves. :)
the crca covers the price of pro coaching (or did some time back - i'm just getting back on the bike after a few years of inactivity). i wonder if the nycc board would consider doing the same for nycc members?
don
I can see a pro racing coach covering bike handling skill in close proximity of other CYCIST. How about street sense such as dealing with traffic? (not to get doored, got tangled up under a turning truck, etc...) Are those also covered in the CRCS's coaching program too?
The issue raised originally wasn't so much about the safety of the cyclist vs. pot hole, rather the perception of car drivers seeing cyclist avoiding road hazard but putting themselves squarely in the traffic's way instead.
...all you can do is avoid riding with them. :) racing does teach you to be aware of your surroundings and to respect the fact that one stupid move and you may go down (not only can you get hurt or die, others can too). in this respect, racing does sort of shock people into be more aware.
don
"""What's wrong with this picture? There's a car coming behind, which may be heading for the very space that the cyclist is swerving into.""
This a tricky situation where there probably isn't a perfect answer. Cyclists have the right to take the lane to avoid an obstruction, but not if there is a car bearing down.
Some things to consider:
Motorists _should_ be leaving adequate room when passing, giving cyclists some wiggle room.
Cyclists should be looking ahead to spot obstructions. There is less time to react as speed increases.
The cyclist at the rear should call out ""Car back.""
A helmet-mounted mirror can help detect an approaching car early.
There's a good probability that the front rider will hear the car approaching an not swerve, but will at least warn the others of a problem. If you know there's a pothole or other danger, there's a good chance you can avoid it or at least brace yourself for it.
The nature of the obstruction should dictate whether it's more dangerous to swerve or continue straight through (i.e., is it a 1-inch deep pothole or a 1-foot deep pothole?)
The high speeds attained in pacelines, coupled with the close spacing of the riders, exacerbates the problem.
""Chainwheel"""
A helmet-mounted mirror? No thank you.
Pacelines themselves are not dangerous. It's the riders in the pacelines who make it safe or not. Speed also is not dangerous. Faster speeds allow you to handle the bike more easily, e.g. bunnyhopping. That is, if you know what you're doing.
Hold your handlebars securely. Don't just drape your hands on the tops. Wrap your thumbs around the bar.
Pacelines or groups of cyclists should force a driver to give a wider berth than he would normally to a single rider. Safety in numbers. If it's a narrow road, ride single file.
I've been on way too many club rides where people scream every two seconds. Hole! Car! Dog! Piece of gum! Nowadays I find racing much preferable; less yelling, more actual bike riding.
We ride on the same roads day in and day out. You should have an idea of where the bad sections are. If you have no idea about the road ahead, take responsibility for yourself. Give yourself some space from the wheel in front of you. Tilt your head and look up the road. If you don't want anybody in front of you, do the pulling yourself. If you have to ride through a bit of rough pavement, you and your bike will survive. If you complain that your wheels are too delicate, then don't ride racing wheels on club rides.
And for god's sake, please don't swerve.
CRCA coaching is not going to magically make a squirrelly rider a steady one. Look at the various people who have been racing for many years, yet still maneuver erratically.
I like the one that sticks to the inside of your sunglasses. If I had to choose, I'd feel safer riding without a helmet than without the mirror.
"When riding as a ""Fred"" (messenger term for recreational cyclist, the kind who wear a mirror--not casting aspersions on Mr. Steinberg et al.), I always wear one too. It's safer making those split-second decisions when you can see what the idiot drivers behind you are doing.
But for city commuting, never. It's too terrifying. I turn around and look them in the eye when I have to."
The problem is traffic that doesn't see you, not you being able to see the traffic. Mirrors don't solve this problem. What you need to do is have one of those big flags on a long pole attached to your bike.
Well, ya know, ya might as well have an H2 underneath that pole. That oughtta do it.
The let-me-try-and-squeeze by you when there's a car double parked (or suddenly decides to pull over in front of you) gets easily resolved while wearing a mirror. I take the lane and do not fear getting doored while looking back. It also makes checking out the paceline much easier and quashes sneak attacks among other benefits.
I confess, I have ridden in pacelines many times but have not formally been trained as to all the ins and outs. I would love to see a really detailed description of proper pacelining.
I have crashed my bike at 24MPH, and taken out the guy behind me because the guy in front could not warn of a very tricky obstacle, although he managed to just miss it himself. We both rode away, but youch!! (And thank god for really good helmets)
I agree with fendergal about people not knowing when to call out. When I'm riding to the GW bridge from 110th St. I KNOW to look out for potholes. When we are riding in the buccolic country, don't bliss out!
Whatever the guidelines, we all have to be vigilant.
"1 - I don't mind looking like a nerd when I am wearing a mirror on my sunglasses; I look like one without them...but for most people it takes personal courage to overcome the social stigma of wearing a mirror. Years ago, Ed Fishkin looked me in the eye and asked me ""when am I going to get a mirror?"" I said that I had tried it once but that it blocked my view. He told me that, when positioned correctly, the mirror is out of view. You have to turn your head slightly to use it. I bought a mirror and never looked back. ..A few years ago I was snowboarding with my wife. I kept moving my head to the right and looking to the left, expecting to she her in a mirror. When it comes down to it, a mirror is a safety device. It can save your life. Would you rather be stylish or run a slight risk of avoidable death? Carry it a step further. What is your feeling when you see young people smoking? Don't you feel like telling them that their behavior is unsafe. Now look in the mirror and ask youself the same question.
2 - I learned this from Jeff Vogel, a fellow respected in cycling circles. When the leader of a paceline sees a hazard, he is to look back to see if the way is clear, then lead the paceline around the problem. Expecting the rest of a paceline to thread around a hazard is a pipedream.
3 - When the situation warrants, seize the whole lane. Giving aggresive drivers the option to control your fate in a dangerous situation is foolish. Let them honk. You owe it to your ride partners and loved ones. But as soon as the situation is clear, wave cars behind you on. We are all ambassadors of cycling. And the golden rule works every time."
> 2 - I learned this from Jeff Vogel, a fellow respected in cycling
> circles. When the leader of a paceline sees a hazard, he is to
> look back to see if the way is clear, then lead the paceline
> around the problem. Expecting the rest of a paceline to thread
> around a hazard is a pipedream.
"A couple of thoughts. The riding where I've seen this problem is not paceline, just riding. My key issue is that the ""hand behind back"" or ""point signal"" is not adequate for the cars that may be coming up from behind and that it may not be practical (for most of us) to signal with both arms simultaneously. Being aware of what's behind is a possible solution, but I worry that some riders on a group ride may not be so savvy.
I use a hood-mounted mirror (not sure if they fit on STI.) I consider it to be part of my ""instrumentation"", just as the computer is."
I thought the signalling is for fellow cyclist behind, not for cars.
I see nothing wrong with the point-out-the-hazard or slowing-down signals. Just not both at the same time, since we don't have a third hand to handle the bike, as you pointed out.
As for squirrelling, that's a differnet issue. And others had offer many suggestions to deal with that. I found the discussion on pacelining apply to non-paceline riding just as well. Those who're squirrelly riding alone will be squirrelly in a paceline. Those who ride a smooth line, will lead a smooth paceline too.
"Why does everyone have it in for Fred's?
I have heard various cycling definitions for ""Fred"", and none of them are flattering.
This is egregious!"
