I recently completed/graduated from the NYCC C-SIG bike group, which was a wonderful experience! I am curious if anyone knows of organized racing teams in the city that are looking for new riders?
Please respond back with any suggestions or contact information of someone with whom I may speak to if possible.
The best way to contact me is via e-mail at [email protected]
Thank you in advance!
Andrew L. Wylie
Interested in joining a beginner bike racing team in NYC
Sun, 05/15/2005 - 9:38am
Sun, 05/15/2005 - 11:13am
#1
Andrew, I don't want to sound like a snob, but C riding is not adequate preparation for racing. I recommend riding with B or slower A rides to see how you fare with higher speeds before showing up for a race. When you do show up for a race, be prepared to be dropped. Don't be discouraged, everybody gets dropped at first. Persistence is a large part of improving in bicycling and bike racing.
In terms of joining a team, if you're out there, having a good time and meeting other racers, you'll find yourself on a team in short order.
If you just want to try out racing, CRCA is holding a men's bike racing clinic on May 29. Go to http://www.crca.net/coaching/introclinics.htm for more info. If you get bitten by the racing bug, there will be other like-minded people there, and you could form your own team if you want.
Sun, 05/15/2005 - 7:29pm
#2
"There are two open race ""club/team"" in NYC. One is CRCA which is more organized and the other is Kissena (who knows when this club/team will put their act together). Sorry about dising my club/team. Go ride with faster guys and you will soon know if you have the race fitness. Once you get the hang of it riding with the faster group, forget about average speed. Average speed? You mean average racer??? In a race, it all matters is your ability to sustain max effort for couple of minutes. Expecting to hit speed around 26 mph to 30 mph on the flat. That's when the pack (organized choas ) begins to surge and chasing down any breaks. And go ride the hills in CP and PP (your first year of racing is pretty much doing it in these local parks) in your big ring (53 x 19 or 17). A race pace up those bumps is about 19 mph+. An attack can reach up to 25 mph."
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 1:39pm
#3
racing
Fendergal said it best. But I'll add that there's a misconception among non-racers that to start racing, you have to be on a team. Not so. In fact, it's advantageous to not be on a team right away--teams should be all about team tactics, and when you just start, you might want to be focussed more on your own results. Also, you know how when you join a club, all the people you first make friends with turn out to be crazy? Riding solo gives you a chance to scope out who you WANT to ride with, vs. who's desperate to have you. ; )
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 3:02pm
#4
Speeds
Can someone post the speeds of the different races.
I heard that the slow group averages 24mph and does 15-16 minute laps. Obviously it only gets faster from there.
I also heard the races slow as the season progresses because the faster riders will move up a category.
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 3:20pm
#5
Race results
These folks do six laps around Central Park faster than I do four!
http://www.crca.net/races05/
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 4:07pm
#6
April 9th
April 9th C race (the slow guys) averaged 24.7 miles per hour.
The fast guys averaged 26.4 mph
Note these are the averages. The slow guys did three laps faster than this. And the fast guys fastest lap averaged 27.3mph.
The fastest lap of the May 14th TT was 29mph average. I forgot it was the TT, I should have come out to watch.
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 6:48pm
#7
"I would say it's the opposite. Races get faster as the season progresses, because people are getting fitter from spring to summer to fall (though by fall, many people are tired and/or burned out). There isn't an even movement of riders in terms of upgrading, because people start racing mid-season, they come back from injury, they take time away from racing, etc., etc. There will always be somebody to help pick up the pace.
On the average, for CRCA, the A race does 13 to 14 minute laps; B race, 14 to 15; and C race, 15 to 16. However, these times can vary greatly, due to weather, time of year, number of riders in the pack, what's occuring in the race, and the type of race, among other factors. An effort can feel harder or easier depending on whether the pace is steady or if there are several surges at the front.
(BTW, I never look at my average after a race. Non-racers like to ask, ""How fast do you go?"" I answer, ""Only as fast as the person in front of me, unless it's the end, then I try to go a little faster."")
Time trials are boring to watch, so I wouldn't bother getting up early to watch one."
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 7:29pm
#8
Can't Compare
It is impossible to compare indivual/small group speed with large group speed. To make my point, there are some publically available power meter statistics taken during Floyd Landis' recent Tour of Georgia. On stage 2, a 120 mile effort lasting 4:46 (bunch finish) Landis averaged 25 mph and 187 watts. I have stats from a 100 mile ride on Saturday, while averaging only 19 mph for 5:20, had a 212 watt average, thus harder...
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 8:59am
#9
And your point is...? (nm)
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 9:11am
#10
He's stronger then Floyd....?
Hmmmm?
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 9:39am
#11
Simple Point
My point is simply, as I stated, that you cannot compare individual or small group performance to large group performance, as I am obviously not as strong as Floyd Landis, yet he required less power to go much faster over a similar distance, due to being in a large group.
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 9:39am
#12
Larger groups ride more effciently than small groups
"You can see this in any stage race or criterium.
A breakaway group has to work much harder (more wattage output) than the peleton if it to succeed in staying away. Most times, once the peleton decides it's time to reel them in, a one to 10 man breakaway stands little chance in surviving to the finish.
But sometimes, the peleton doesn't get right, and a breakaway succeeds. I will cite 3 in the last year.
1. In last year's Veulta Espana, Dave Zabriske (then on US Postal) won stage 11, with a SOLO breakaway at the 3KM mark, and stayed away for the next 162KM for victory. The peleton finished 1':11"" later.
2. In the 7th stage of this year's Giro de Italia, first over the line in Pistoia was Koldo Gil Perez (Liberty Seguros), who had been on the attack for 180km on Saturday as part of a 21 man break and hung tough to maintain his lead on the final ascent to take a magnificent solo victory in Pistoia. (thank you cycling news).
3. At the 2005 Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Jens Voight and Alexandre Vinokurov broke away from the pack with 52km to go, passing other riders who had previously broken away. Eventually, about 25-30 riders were chasing the pair that had less than a minute lead. But the chase group was unable and/or unwilling to work together, plus there were a couple of brtual hills breaking legs that had ridden 200km that day. Voigt and Vino's time gap actually grew to over 1 minute 30 seconds, and Vino outsprinted Voigt for the win.
It's all power management"
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 1:46pm
#13
Jens
"It was obvious if you watched that race, Jens was incredible. He do 99% of the work. A motor on full throttle. He countered many an attack by Alex. It was a no brainer that Vinokurov would take Jens in the sprint as he had the ""freshest"" legs in the end."
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 10:31am
#14
Speed is a function of both wattage and wind protection
Another way to put it is if Floyd's race (peleton) had gone faster so that Floyd had the same power output as John's ride last Saturday, the peleton's average speed might have been, say, 29mph. The same wattage output translates to a higher speed when one is protected inside a large peleton.
Wed, 05/18/2005 - 4:49pm
#15
This Sunday is the first race in PP for the Kissena series. Come and watch. Race starts at 6:30AM. Well, I am ready to do some serious work.
Mon, 05/16/2005 - 11:05am
#16
Kissena
I've been a member of Kissena for a year and a half. I joined at the age of 47. I've enjoyed the training rides and the few races I have done so far.
The club and its members have been a great source of support and information.
I only wish I could adjust my schedule to incorporate the many options this club has that are of interest to me.
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 10:09am
#17
Team in Training
Andrew,
A great way to develop your skills under the guidance of a coach while raising money for a good cause is to join Team In Training, the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society's athletic fund raising program. There is a NYC chapter team forming now for the fall season. Their ride will be the Golden Apple Century in Katonah.
There are also travel opportunities with the program. I have been to Lake Tahoe, Tucson, Chicago and St. Croix with them. The fundraising obligation varies from event to event.
You can go to www.teamintraining.org or call them at 212-448-9206 to find out more. I'm not participating this year, but I have made many friends through the program, with whom I still ride and socialize.
Good luck.
Gary
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 10:58am
#18
"Difference between ""raising"" and ""racing""?"
"""Team"" they may call themselves, but RACING team they are NOT!
Those ""teams"" are about RAISING money, not RACING bikes.
"
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 11:37am
#19
"Difference between ""reading"" and ""not"""
"It's ""Team in TRAINING"", not Team in Racing. Gary didn't say anything about racing either. Which seems odd, because that's what this thread is about. TNT will not prepare you to race bikes, but you might have a good time training for a century."
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 1:42pm
#20
Aren't tangiental thoughts allowed here?
"""Which seems odd, because that's what this thread is about. TNT will not prepare you to race bikes, but you might have a good time training for a century.""
Yes, the initial question in the thread was from Andrew, who completed C-sig and wishes to join a racing team. Fendergal stated in response to Andrew that there are other steps to be taken before a C rider is ready to race. I don't wish to dispute her statement.
Fendergal pointed out one intermediate step between the C-sig and racing; I merely suggested another one. I think that it offers many benefits to the rider and to those who are fighting leukemia. TNT is a win for everyone!
Gary"
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 2:12pm
#21
"""tangiental thoughts"""
"I don't claim to represent all forun participants. But I'm guessing most would say ""tangiental thoughts"" are welcomed. I was merely adding a bit more detail regarding Team In Training by pointing out the program was not specifically about racing.
Also, since I've never done the SIG's, I wonder if there's much overlaps between the NYCC SIGS and the trainings provided by TNT."
Wed, 05/18/2005 - 3:42am
#22
TNT and SIGS
I've never done the SIGs either, April.
TNT teams usually consist of 20 to 40 people, working towards a goal event of a century (sometimes part of the team is working towards a local ride, while the other part is working towards one in a different part of the country.)
There is a graduated approach to building mileage, along with basic skills development sessions (e.g. pacelining, climbing, bikehandling), tire changing instruction, nutrition and fitness presentations, time trials to assess fitness, and participation in local events such as the Bloomin' Metric and Tour de Putnam.
The current coach identifies different fitness levels among the group (levels 1 to 4), and works with each group for a portion of the training rides.
It's not racing, but I learned much during my time in the program which started in 2000. As previously mentioned, it gives you a chance to develop as a rider while supporting a great cause. It also appeals to the Walter Mitty in some of us, since you get to wear a uniform, ship your bike on a truck, fly to races, ride a team bus, have people on the side of the road (from all over the country) holding up signs and rooting for you, along with a team staff person giving you food and drink in addition to that provided by the organizers.
The fund raising obligation is four to five times the cost of training, equipment and travel, which results in 75 to 80 percent of the money raised going to leukemia patient and family services and research.
I can't say enough good things about this program. Everybody wins. And thus ends my time on the soapbox.
Whatever your choice, Andrew, good luck!
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 1:21pm
#23
I didn't say racing...
"...I said to improve skills and benefit from the guidance of a coach, etc.
I, for one, learned many basic skills in this program, that have benefited me to this day. (Some of my fellow riders say I still have a lot to learn).
Before joining in 2000, I had never ridden more than 25 miles on a hybrid, and by the end of the five months of training I was riding a century in a paceline on a road bike.
I think Team in Training is great in its own right, and for those who are so inclined, to develop skills that they can take to the ""next level"" of cycling.
Yes, it's about fundraising, but it also allows the athlete to train and travel like a pro. I felt that I was the part of something unique, from both perspectives."
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 3:30pm
#24
And no matter how much experience you have, there's always something new to learn. Cycling is constantly humbling in that way.
Tue, 05/17/2005 - 5:00pm
#25
Sorry, Gary. As a local NYC racer, your life is less than glamourous. You work full time AND train close to 150 miles to 200 miles a week. 12 hours to 15 hours+. You have to commute to work to get those miles too and be able to ride close to everyday. You have to be on the bike at least 4 to 5 days. If you feel competitive, you do many of the out of state races in the New England area. This means you have to wake up like 6am and drive 2 hours to 3 hours+ to get to races. Have about an hour warm up and registration. Of course, you will get your ass handed to you by the local boys. The reality of training to race won't hit home until you have 1 to 2 years of racing experience.
Wed, 05/18/2005 - 8:11am
#28
Perfect timing
"CRCS is doing it's usually annual ""clinic"" for people interested in racing THIS SUNDAY! Check the calendar (or on the home page of this website)"
Wed, 05/18/2005 - 9:03am
#29
Ditto that
Andrew
The idea of attending a beginner clinic is not a bad one given you want a taste of racing.
Just to give you a taste of the level though, I've been riding with the STS A-23 program, and I did my first race last night. Having never raced before it was a lot to take in and I ended up getting dropped half way around the last circuit, mostly from not paying attention and not being prepared for the shift in tempo. I'd hate to be disparaging but I'd join others in suggesting you take advantage of doing faster pace rides and maybe at least be comfortable with an A19 pace before stretching to a race (and even then you'll find the race pace somewhat different).
One of the great things about NYCC is that there are a choice of different paced rides and you can gear it up as your fitness increases.
Wed, 05/18/2005 - 10:34am
#30
First race
Steve,
Was your first race at Floyd Bennett last night? My first race was there last August. I didn't know how to get back into the pack after losing contact with an early breakaway. I thought I was supposed to wait for everyone to pass and then get on the back. It didn't work out. As a result I rode the last three laps alone.
I lamented on the Kissena message board, and got a few pointers from other club members. The following week, I was with the pack until the end.
I certainly didn't get any faster in seven days, but being part of a team was a great source of encouragement and knowledge.
