Leaders of Group4
When I went back to retrieve my water bottle, I discovered that both tires where punctured. It took me quite some time to get the first tire bead off and then change both tires. Probably more than 15 minutes. I tracked the cue sheet until I missed the turn at the gas station and instead followed 501 straight to 9W. My apologies if you waited for me to no avail.
Besides learning how to change my tires faster, what should i do next time?
Thanks, Matt
ASIG Classic Group 4
Sun, 03/13/2005 - 1:21pm
Sun, 03/13/2005 - 5:01pm
#1
That sounds like quite a mishap. . .
Are you ok?
Thank you, SIG leaders, for an exceptional day!
Cat
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 7:03am
#2
Next time
It sounds like you shouldn't draft someone who doesn't call out road hazards.
If it threw your water and killed both tires, sounds like it should have been called out. Hitting something like that isn't your fault, it is the fault of the people in front of you.
(You might think about more air in your tires, if you that that had something to do with it. It would be rare to flat two at proper pressure.)
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 8:24am
#3
I think they are learning paceline skills in a sig group. So if he's waiting until all the skills are mastered before he rides in a paceline, he might as well stay home.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 10:07am
#4
Why paceline?
What's the deal with pacelining anyway? If you're not racing, why do you want to go faster with less effort? Aren't you riding for exercise after all?
Seems to me that riding with a space between riders would be a lot safer and more enjoyable.
B.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 10:20am
#5
Why ask why?
"""What's the deal with pacelining anyway? ""
If you have to ask...
Because we can?"
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 10:54am
#6
Can you?
Apparently not very well if someone crashed...
Can you come up with a better explanation?
B.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 11:01am
#7
What's good for Lance...
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 11:41am
#8
learning curve
Because it's exhilarating. Because it's better to improve your skill set than to settle for what you already know.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 11:51am
#9
Buster is just trying to bust your...
Besides, who said anything about a crash?
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 1:17pm
#10
Did you crash, Matt? (nm)
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 11:44am
#11
Safer
I was in Group 4 yesterday. The group was definately squirelly and there can be risk to riding in a paceline. That being said, paceline can be much safer for several reasons:
1) Is it easier to see a compact car or a semi truck? When a paceline is tight, you appear to motorists as one large cohesive unit. You are much easier to see as a group and it is obvious you are together.
2) The larger and more cohesive the group, the less challenging motorists will be. At a corner, a motorist may try and turn through a group if it is not tight. If the group is tight, the motorist has no option but to wait for the entire group to pass. There is less chance for motorist weaving.
3) On straights with 2 lane roads, the tighter the group, the quicker a motorist can pass the group while encroaching over the yellow line, reducing the need to swerve for oncoming traffic.
A bad paceline can be risky. However, in a good paceline, even with the additional possibility of injury and risk from riding so close, I feel much, much safer from traffic.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 1:36pm
#12
Risk Management (Why do they call it Ovaltine?)
"I was in Group 4 yesterday. The group was definitely squirelly and there can be risk to riding in a paceline. That being said, paceline can be much safer for several reasons.
You make some good points. But I suspect most folks choose to paceline more because of the ""exhilaration"" or ""Lance factor,"" than because of safety.
You acknowledged the ""risk"" of pacelines, but didn't get into specifics. Stuff happens fast when you're riding at 20+ mph. A dog running out, a pot hole, or just a moment of inattention. Any of these can bring down several riders in an instant, especially when riders are tired. There are spectacular crashes each year among the Euro pros who are arguably the most skilled riders on the planet. Many of those crashes happen when ""just riding along.""
1) Is it easier to see a compact car or a semi truck? When a paceline is tight, you appear to motorists as one large cohesive unit. You are much easier to see as a group and it is obvious you are together.
For a truly inattentive driver or a car out of control, it would not matter. There have been many instances of a motor vehicle plowing into a group of cyclists. The larger and tighter the pack, the greater the number of potential injuries.
2) The larger and more cohesive the group, the less challenging motorists will be.
The larger the paceline, the greater the probability of one rider screwing up and causing a crash. What would you consider a large paceline? Is it reasonable to have 20+ riders riding paceline on a narrow road? I don't think so.
3) On straights with 2 lane roads, the tighter the group, the quicker a motorist can pass the group while encroaching over the yellow line, reducing the need to swerve for oncoming traffic.
We shouldn't be encouraging motorists to ""encroach over the yellow line."" If the lane is too narrow for passing, take the lane!
There seems to be a feeling that ""good"" riders all ride in pacelines. That just isn't so. Lots of good, fast, and experienced riders prefer to ride alone or with a few friends. And lots of lousy riders do ride pacelines.
B.
"
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 1:41pm
#13
I give up.
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 2:16pm
#14
Sonny got dropped, I guess (nm)
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 1:54pm
#15
Sucking Buster's wheel.
"Buster wants everyone to be impressed by his logical objections to the value of riding in a paceline--unless you are in a race. He originally objected because of the lack of ""exercise"" in a paceline. Now he objects to riders experiencing ""exhiliration"" in a group ride, and refers to an undefined ""Lance factor"". (Isn't Lance Armstrong more renowned for riding alone--on training rides and at mountain-top stage finishes?) Good riders don't necessarily ride in pacelines but the very good among them will know how. And lousy riders in pacelines probably don't last too long unless they are at the back."
Mon, 03/14/2005 - 7:07pm
#16
BS
"""You acknowledged the ""risk"" of pacelines, but didn't get into specifics. Stuff happens fast when you're riding at 20+ mph. A dog running out, a pot hole, or just a moment of inattention. Any of these can bring down several riders in an instant, especially when riders are tired.""
Speed is not the issue. Lack of skill and lack of attention are the culprits."
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 8:26am
#17
Physics 101
Speed is not the issue. Lack of skill and lack of attention are the culprits.
Velocity = distance / time
At higher speeds, you cover a given distance in less time. In other words, you have less time to react when something bad happens. Remember the safe driving rule: Leave one car length for every 10 mph of speed?
Speed is definitely an issue. So are skill and attentiveness. And pack size. And luck, too. If it were only about skill, there would be few if any crashes among the pros.
B.
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 8:48am
#18
Racing vs. club-riding
"""If it were only about skill, there would be few if any crashes among the pros.""
We're (generally) not racing each other. For a club-rider, pacelining is all about team-work, cooperation, communication. SIGs teach these cooperative riding skills. Personally I feel safer on the road when riding in pacelines with skilled, considerate riders."
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 11:46am
#19
Feeling safe
Personally I feel safer on the road when riding in pacelines with skilled, considerate riders.
Safer than riding on the road with skilled, considerate riders who leave a safe following distance?
B.
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 12:13pm
#20
safest
Yes, but I feel safest in bed with the covers over my head.
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 8:56am
#21
Your reasoning about the pros is incorrect. Crashes while the peloton is 'just cruising along' (including at high speed) are very rare. Most of the mass crashes happen when riders are fighting for position, taking risks, and/or nervousness, ie, like just before the Ahrenberg Forest in Paris-Roubaix, or in a sprint finish. Take away these factors, and these guys are very safe at high speeds. It takes the cumulative experience of the group to ride safely, even at high speeds. I'd rather ride at high speeds with experienced riders than a slow group ride of inexperienced riders any day.
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 9:36am
#22
Thanks for the Physics 101 lesson -- having 3 engineering degrees, Physics 101 was a long time ago for me. However, you neglect the fact that human reaction time can be improved by training.
Tue, 03/15/2005 - 12:08pm
#23
Sonny,
Have you seen a peer-reviewed study of this, or is it personal anecdote?
For what it's worth, I agree with all 3 based on my own empirical experience, and 3) follows from basic distance/time = speed, but I'd be interested to read any more information on it.
Alas, research on bicycle safety appears sparse...
- Christian
