Times Up & Critical Mass: Do they speak for us?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

"A couple of hundred cyclists were arrested at Friday's ""Critical Mass"" ride. It was front page news. Does anyone have additional info on this? Did the CMers provoke the arrests or were they victimized by an overzealous police force?

What was the objective of Friday's ride? Was that objective achieved?

What images, positive or negative, do Times Up and Critical Mass create for cycling? Is Critical Mass an exercize in cycling advocacy or just street theater on wheels? Do you feel that Times Up ""speaks for us"" as cyclists?

Discuss!

"

Anonymous's picture
Chaim (not verified)
They Don't Speak For Me

"They certainly don't speak for me. I think they reflect very poorly on cyclists. Experienced cyclists want to get along and cooperate on the streets, not take over the streets. Sure, it is fun to ride with no cars, but we sure wouldn't like it if car drivers drove in a way that made it impossible for us to pass. Well, sometimes they do drive that way, and we sure don't like it. So why would bikers want to do the same thing? In my opinion, these guys are just ""in your face"" angry people whose main goal is to be ""in your face"", not really to affect policy change.
"

Anonymous's picture
Andreas (not verified)
It certainly sends a message for bicycle rights.

The cops don't care when you tell them that a car ran you over. The TLC turns it's back on you when you tell them that a cab just hit you. Where does that leave riders? I was on the front lines at the CM ride. It was obvious that the police were overzealous and violent without provocation. If you go on CM rides you know that it's a peaceful ride around the city. Some traffic is created but no more than the cars create 24-7-365. Tough! This needs to be done to make a point and to show that cyclists exist. We're obviously being ignored and disrespected so action is needed. Words have failed in the past. The cops needed a dress rehersal for the RNC and they also didn't like that most of the CM riders are strongly against the Bush administration. All I can say is that the cops were totally out of control and I can sympathize with the students in Tienamen square because what I saw was quite similar and equally as appauling. They came in 200 strong in riot gear looking to confiscate bikes and violently suppress a bike ride. It certainly did nothing for community relations not to mention the budget. I saw 2 helicoptors flying overhead for at least 3 hours, not to mention the buses that were sent as well as the salary of the riot police. I thought the city was broke? Maybe they just don't know how to allocate their money and regime change is needed in the NYPD. It was complete overkill and scary to see in America....the supposed land of the free and home of the brave. I didn't see any brave cops waving their batons around in a threatening manor and it certainly isn't bravery to forcibly arrest a 90 pound woman in her 20's for riding her bike. I suggest everyone come out and take a stand for the rights of all NYers and Americans. Cycling is not a crime.

Anonymous's picture
mike (not verified)
cops were overreacting

i ditto the above, i couldn't believe the resources and helicopters, the number of police lining the route and the riot equipment displayed by the city on Fridays ride.

Anonymous's picture
Fixer (not verified)
I already got my rights, thank you...

"The cops don't care when you tell them that a car ran you over

Really? You've been struck by a motor vehicle, summoned the police, and they said, ""So what""?. Highly doubtful.

The TLC turns it's back on you when you tell them that a cab just hit you.

Not my experience. Any time I've filed a complaint against a cab or bus driver, the TLC and the DOT have been quite responsive. Maybe you oughta try it sometime.


All I can say is that the cops were totally out of control and I can sympathize with the students in Tienamen square because what I saw was quite similar and equally as appauling.

Really? You saw tanks? Teargas? Deaths? And deliberately blocking motor, pedestrian, and even other cycling traffic, a mob literally seizing the streets, putting their own interests above all others, is not ""out of control""?

As someone who's been riding in this city every day since the Koch administration, I don't see much to complain about. There's plenty of bicycle presence on these steeets - it's not without some element of danger, but it's a little slice of heaven compared to places like Atlanta or Phoenix."

Anonymous's picture
jon (not verified)
...not in this town, you don't

"You've been struck by a motor vehicle, summoned the police, and they said, ""So what""?.

Um, yeah. Five years ago: Pickup driver yelled at me, sped past, slowed, swerved into me as soon as I came alongside again. I had license plate #. Cops refused to take it - if they didn't see me get hit then it didn't happen.

Three years ago: doored by illegally parked cab. Had plate#. Insisted on filing report over objections of officer. Was lied to about when I could get report to file for insurance, and as a result insurance refused to cover the $2K in hospital bills."

Anonymous's picture
Fixer (not verified)
Sure you do, if you persue!

"An NYPD patrolman is not the Ultimate Authority. If you've been assaulted, or involved in a traffic ""accident"", and the cop on the scene doesn't want to be bothered with the paperwork, get his/her name and go to the local precinct. If the desk sargeant throws you out, get his/her name and contact a lawyer, or a local elected representative.

That said, if there are no witnesses, no fresh injuries as evidence, it's your word against the motorist's, and it's unlikely anything will come of it. But it's nothing to do with cycling.

Years ago, I was punched and knocked down by a couple of drunk off-duty cops at an NYPD softball game in a local park. One of the offenders didn't like that I expressed that his ""Police Brutality: The FUN part of the job!"" t-shirt was in poor taste. Bruised and with my left eye swollen shut, I walked over to two uniformed officers watching the game from their patrol car. You guessed it, they refused to act, and actually told me I'd be arrested if I didn't leave the park.

Long story short - Thanks to the Blue Wall of Silence, we never did find out who hit me, but I did get the names of the two cops who blew me off, and with some pushing from my city councilman's office and the CCRB, they were brought up on departmental charges."

Anonymous's picture
Geo Carl Kaplan (not verified)
Times Up & Critiucal Mass, Do They Speak for Us?

To answer the young lady - cycling is not a crime.
On the other hand a large group of cyclists, acting in concert, totally disregarding the rights of others including pedcestrians and motorists, and in doing so endanger many, including themselves, is a crime.
Peaceful protest is guaranteed and protected by the constitution of the United States. Deliberately putting others in harms way is not!
I saw the ride this past Friday night going up Sixth Avenue - below 14th Street - and what I saw was cyclists deliberately going through red lights preventing pedestrians and cross town motorists from crossing over.
I saw many enemies of cycling being created. I saw cyclists riding in front of motor vehicles daring them to hit them, and attempting to provoke. Is this the way for cycling to win friends and advocates?
This was an angry mob of political protesters, venting there frustrations on the rest of the city, without a thought being given to and for the rights of others. If you want rights and respect you must give them.
Parenthetically - how many of those cyclists had lights and bells or horns?
At best this was an immature manifestation of frustration
and petulance, combined with a strong desire for recognition. Recognition was achieved, but at what cost to the great majoprity of cyclists?
I am in favor and support the Times Up monthly traffic calominmg rides. I was disgusted by the display on Friday night.

Anonymous's picture
Ted (not verified)
My $.02

"I spent a lot of time thinking this one over while riding this weekend.
I rode in Critical Mass in San Francisco back in 1997 on the big clash ride where Willy Brown laid down the law, and we broke it.
http://bicycling.about.com/library/weekly/aa073097.htm
I supported those rides, and though the message was right.
The cyclists arrested there were trying to access the Bay bridge, circling city hall, and making other pro-cycling statements. (in my view)

This friday night stuff was ""cyclists"" going to protest the Republican convention. Or that is what I heard in the news stories. I didn't hear any interviews or spokesmen saying this was to promote cycling, but I did hear a lot of ""I hate Bush"". How does this promote cycling? Cyclists are protesters that like to throw pasta at police?
Cyclists have gained some and lost some during this administration, mostly stuff on the state and local level. Why would I protest republicans as a cyclist? As far as I know, W likes bikes. He seems to crash his on a regular basis. My last IMBA newsletter highlighted all kinds of accomplishments in Washington.

If critical mass slogged around Central Park slowly at 5 or 6pm and blocked the jerks that race through at 45mph, or if CM puttered slowly up Riverside drive to show people that they need to give us some room when they pass. I would support that.
Having cyclists ride to MSG as a political statement, against war in iraq, or whatever your cause might be is poor style.

As for the police, like it or not, the police have a big job to protect some republican leaders this week, not to mention a few million people that live here in NYC. Blocking traffic, protesting without a permit, and going right to the heart of the problem is not a pro-cycling statement, and just makes their job harder. That is just making trouble. I don't support that."

Anonymous's picture
A boring pest (not verified)
a first person perspective

"Did the CMers provoke the arrests or were they victimized by an overzealous police force?

As a participant of the ride on Friday and as a person who was caught up in one of the ""sweeps"", I feel compelled to weigh in on this one.

Having been on quite a number of CM rides in NYC, I can say that the only thing abnormal about Friday's ride was the large attendance. There were a few banners/shirts etc indicating people's politics but the group as a whole was not overtly communicating a political statement. Nor were there masked anarchists reeking havoc on bystanders or committing acts of vandalism. Begrudgingly or not, the police have been tolerating CM for at least several years and their reaction on Friday was unprecedented and was not brought about by unruly behavior on the part of the riders. There was no selection process to the arrests. It was a simply a dragnet (which caught a few marlins along with the tuna by the way) and seemed to have two designs: 1) to send a message to ""protests"" yet to come and 2) to train a bunch of rookie cops as to how to arrest people - using a flock of non-violent, mild mannered cyclists as the training ground.

Most people were detained for over 24 hours without being charged. When they we're released most were given an adjournment of the case (something called an ACD). Rights were violated and it was clear that many of the arresting officers were not overly proud of what they were doing. I should mention that all of the arresting officers I encountered were pretty decent guys and I saw no rough stuff.

Here is a blow by blow account of the events:
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/107675/index.php

I found it interesting to read many of the arrest reports for Sunday's seemed to be groups of cyclists as well.

Please don't get me wrong. Think whatever you like about CM, vote for whomever you want. But, if you aren't at least a bit concerned about flagrant violations of people's rights on a mass scale in your front yard I think that's crazy. Having 24hrs hours of your life hijacked from you for riding a bike down the street is just whack.

Having said this much, you probably know how I feel about the rest of the questions posed so I'll shut up now.

thanks,
-b"

Anonymous's picture
Chaim (not verified)
Who Are You?

Why did you post anonymously? Since we have freedom of speech in this country, there is no need to hide. Surely you are not in the same camp with the KKK whose sheets provided anonymity for them. Our freedom of speech is a wonderful right and we must use it responsibly: we should identify ourselves when we speak.

Anonymous's picture
Isaac Brumer (not verified)
Freedom of speech

Chaim, the first amendment limits government power, it does not guarantee an individual's safety against social ostracism (e.g., people refuse to sit with you at the club meeting or don't offer you half a turkey sandwich on a ride.)

That said, BP, I think you should feel safe identifying yourself. It certainly raises the profile of the discussion.

Anonymous's picture
Chaim (not verified)
Thanks for the Turkey Sandwich

Hi Isaac,
I don't understand what point you're making, but thanks very much for the half turkey sandwich! It was very nice of you to offer it to me and it was delicious!
Best regards, Chaim

Anonymous's picture
A boring pest (not verified)
I am a boring pest.

Why did you post anonymously? Since we have freedom of speech in this country, there is no need to hide. Surely you are not in the same camp with the KKK whose sheets provided anonymity for them.

I posted anonymously because those sheets get so stuffy - not to mention the laundry expenses. C'mon, man. The analogy of posting an anonymous message on an internet message board to wearing a Klan outfit is tommyrot. I posted anonymously because I felt like it and because anonymous posts are allowed. I've looked and looked but I can't find where in the first amendment it reads that the freedom of speech is protected provided the person doing the speaking clearly identifies themselves. It does, however, provide for the right of the people peaceably to assemble. Hmmm...

-bp

Anonymous's picture
george (not verified)
critical mass

The mass on Friday was different - it is generally not 'Bikes against Bush'. There is no political aim to the mass - they are simply making the point that bikes are traffic as well as cars and have as much a right to the streets as anyone else. I would hope that most NYCCers would agree with this, if not with the rather agressive way that the point is made.

My experience of Critical Mass is that it is generally met with a very positive response - clapping and cheering - by both pedestrians and motorists. Some people get annoyed, but the usual mass only takes a few minutes to pass. Friday's mass was the biggest I've ever seen, with the corresponding escalation of problems.

Masses in other cities, notably London, are escorted by bike-mounted police who assist in closing off side streets so the mass can move quickly, minimising disruption and reducing confrontation.

More power to them, I say.

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Let's keep the argument straight

Are we talking about Critical Mass in general or Friday night's adventure?

From what I understand, the usual CM rides go off respectfully and peacefully with the purpose of advancing cycling and cyclist's rights.

From what I heard about Friday's ride, both from people who were there and from the papers, it was little more than a horde of angry cyclists screaming anti-Bush epithets and tying up traffic.

I have to go back to Isaac's first question, what is the objective and was it accomplished? Are Bush voters going to be swayed by such actions or do such actions simply confirm their worst attitudes towards liberals and democrats? Was this event anything more than a self-serving opportunity to vent frustration at having our city hijacked for a purely political purpose. And by reacting in this way, did it not actually hurt the cause it was intended to advance?

I think the answer to this last question may very likely be yes. I share the frustration but can't help thinking there are more constructive ways to advance the anti-Bush message and that the image of cyclists Friday's event protrayed does little to help either cycling or cyclists rights.

Anonymous's picture
Isaac Brumer (not verified)
Hijacked for a purely political purpose

Was this event anything more than a self-serving opportunity to vent frustration at having our city hijacked for a purely political purpose.

Tom: Like Bush or not, party conventions are important elements of our democratic process. The Republicans could have chosen any city, but chose ours. Thank you. It's a potential moneymaker and a great showcase of our city, its quality of like and our ability to host world-class functions. I can deal with the inconveniences (though I'm peeved in principle at the GWB closure.)

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Straying off topic but...

"I can't resist.

1) There may have been a time when political conventions where ""important elements of our democratic process"" but that time has long since passed since the main purpose of these conventions, mominating candidates and forming party platforms, are done in advance of the conventions themselves. The purpose nowadays is simply to present a party infomercial largely devoid of substance. This will be particularly true of the republican convention whose attendees will not in any way represent the ethnic composition of the party and where many of the party leaders such as Tom DeLay will be all but invisible.

2)A potential moneymaker? Have you not heard of the financial disaster that was the Boston Democratic convention? Not only did the city itself lose money, the businesses immediately surrounding the convention area were huge losers as well. What about all the NYC residents who have fled the city this week? Will the conventioneers replace the revenue the exiles take with them? Not likely. How about the cost for extra police, security, etc., etc. To say that the republican convention is a financial disaster for NYC would be putting it mildly.

3) The Republicans chose NYC for the supremely cynical reason of identifying with 9/11 and I think it's disgusting on it's face not to mention the fact that the Bushies and their fellow Republicans did everything they could to renege on the aid they promised in the wake of 9/11."

Anonymous's picture
Christian Edstrom (not verified)

Tom wrote:

> How about the cost for extra police, security, etc.,
> etc. To say that the republican convention is a
> financial disaster for NYC would be putting it mildly.

One thing that struck me yesterday during the march was the number of police officers and the extraordinary costs that were involved.

Rather than have 10,000 police officers on hand to guard against grandmas, vegans, firemen, teachers, union organizers, and me, I'd rather have had 10 extra cops in the subway, each and every day since 9/11. And don't get me started on port security.

Oh, and to bring it back to CM. As discussed in a prior thread, I think CM does more harm than good. In terms of outreach to motorists, being a visible, assertive, communicative daily commuter will afford more goodwill and outreach than CM in its present format can hope to.

- Christian

Anonymous's picture
jon hill (not verified)
they like us, they really like us

I was a spectator at the CM in midtown. It was relatively early in the ride, and yes we were corked for more than ten min, but I didn't see a single irritated pedestrian.

This was the first CM I've ever seen live and in person, and I couldn't believe how contagious the energy was. I fully expected some sourpuss peds to kvetch, but every single person I saw on the sidewalk was having a ball watching the parade go by. Maybe it was my rose colored glasses.

Anonymous's picture
Richard Rosenthal (not verified)
Yeah, right, like I could remain silent in this thread.

"Yeah, right, like I could resist entering this thread.

Two brief comments: cyclists arrested for obstruction; had bikes confiscated; jailed for 24 hrs.

Q. OK, ya go through a red light or obstruct cross traffic, you're breaking the law, you're subject to sanction. By the police. And, possibly, the courts.

So, now, a show of hands of all of you who've ever once seen a bus driver (best of all are those hinged/double busses) including the private bus lines, a truck driver (best of all, the private carting trucks but any truck will serve my point), a cab driver, or a car driver for obstructing traffic by plunging through a red light only to get caught in the crossflow and impeding it.

...I'm waiting... Not one? Not one of you? I don't see a single hand.

Q: OK, posit such a driver might have been ticketed: do you (a) believe his car would be confiscated; and (b) that he would be jailed for 24 hours?

The AP quotes a Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Brown as asserting the CM ""endangered motorists."" Please explain.

The ever dyspeptic Rosenthal"

Anonymous's picture
Bill Vojtech (not verified)
I think the difference is...

"I think the difference is that when a motorist ends up blocking the intersection, it's because he's trying to get across and fails, due to traffic getting bogged down ahead of him, or frustration with the cross traffic that blocked him when he had the green light. CM blocked the intersections on purpose, intentionally messing up traffic, so they got spanked.

Another poster mentioned CM's lack of protest permits. We all have a protest permit: The First Amendment. I'm not sure if screwing up traffic is ""speech,"" but there's a lot of things that are considered speech that I'm not so sure about. When your speech blocks ambulances, fire trucks, and my commute, I have a problem.

Overall, I think CM hurts ""us,"" (I think they cause more irate motorists to complain about ""those damn bikes that should be banned from the roads"", than they enlighten), but who are ""we"" anyway? From the looks of the posts on this thread, we're quite a diverse group, united by our love of cycling.

My own experience with cops and bike/car accident reports: I was ""doored"" over 20 years ago in Brooklyn. The driver would not wait for a cop. I took his plate number. I went to the police station. The cop at the desk was friendly and helpful. I filled out a complaint about the driver leaving the scene. The cop said it would ""go on his record"" and cause his insurance to go up. I was happy.

I think that your attitude makes a big difference when dealing with cops, (or anyone). If you are loud, frantic or otherwise agitated, they'll want to get rid of you.

If you seem to be threatening them, (or you just piss them off) and they have some power over you, (guns, badges, handcuffs), they'll use them. Remember, they didn't get into police work because they like paperwork.

If you treat them like they're a hero who saves the somwhat free world every day, they'll usually go out of their way to help you. That may not be how you feel about them in your heart of hearts, but that's what works. Do you want service from your public servants, or jail time?

Oh, before people go around comparing what happened to the CM protesters to what went down in
Tiananmen Square, check out this link:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/packages/ccic/cnd/InfoBase/June4th89/English-...

We're not quite there, yet."

Anonymous's picture
velo (not verified)
Times Up & Critical Mass: Do they speak for us?

As a participant in Friday nights CM ride I have to agree that it was the police, not the cyclists that were out of line. Whether there are 250 or thousands of cyclists is irrelevant. No one can predict the number of cyclists prior to the event and declaring a normally legal, police escorted event as inappropriate simply because the turnout was large doesn’t make any sense. If anyone in Manhattan wasn’t already expecting traffic problems this week they’ve obviously slept through the last month. Why should the RNC the right to close streets for security reasons, but not a group of protestors?
This was my first CM event, but from my understanding the purpose is to increase awareness of cyclists and promote environmental friendly transportation. The fact that it turned into an anti-Bush ride might be partly a result of the Bush administrations “anti-environment policies”. Times up made it very clear on their website that all cyclists, including Republicans, were welcome. The fact that cyclists were exercising their right to free speech should be praised, not reprimanded. I was very impressed by the support and cheering from both pedestrians and motorists. The protest was peaceful and I didn’t see anyone who was violent or endangering motorists/pedestrians. In addition, plenty of cyclists had lights and bells – but why is this necessary if there were thousands of cyclists. It’s not as if the thousands of cyclists weren’t visible to motorists and pedestrians. Although I have to say I’d like a warning honk or bell the next time a car tries to run me off the road. While I agree that we don’t want to make enemies with drivers, an organized effort is needed to educate drives that we’re out there and that they need to be aware of cyclists on the road. There are many ignorant people who don’t think that it is legal for cyclists to be on the road.
The masses of police officers armed in full riot gear charging into crowds creates danger, not the cyclists themselves. Most of the arrests were completely random and occurred after the ride was over. Thus it was not for running red lights, but for simply being there. Even if it were for traffic violations, a cyclist running a red light creates a lot less danger to others than a vehicle and yet we were treated as if we felons.

Anonymous's picture
Bill Vojtech (not verified)
Most drivers

"Most drivers are pretty sure bikes are legal on city streets and they're quite aware that they exist. ""Awareness events"" like Critical Mass/TimesUp make them wish they were not. And they may write to their political representatives to ask that they make it so, after getting stuck behind a ""traffic calming"" ride. Beleive me, the drivers behind you are anything but becalmed by your antics."

Anonymous's picture
Banana Guy (not verified)
Is there a dangerous precedent set here?

Based on the NYPD response to cyclists running red lights, are we all subject to arrest if we do so in the future?
I thought 'blocking the box' was a traffic violation, not an offense which warrants detention.

Anonymous's picture
Wayne Wright (not verified)
Prognosis Negative

Isaac asks what the objective of Friday's ride was. At this point I've read this entire thread, several personal accounts, and two newspares, and I still don't know. I know that the usual CM ride objective is to promote city cycling and make it more visible. It does not sound like this was the case at Friday's anti-Bush themed ride.

I don't see how this incident can do anything but have a negative impact on cyclists in our city. Friday's CM ride failed to get a message across of any kind, at least in any forum I'm aware of. The public's perception of cyclists in this context is almost certain to be a negative one.

A co-worker of mine was looking at pictures of a fire that was set at yesterday's demonstartion in her tabloid newspaper today. By all accounts, the demonstation was overwhelmingly peaceful, but the tabloids, of course, need to sell papers. Her conclusion? The demonstration was a riot that she was glad she avoided. I doubt that the public's reaction to reports on the CM ride will be much more favorable, and that's unfortunate for NYC's cycling community.

Anonymous's picture
Hank Schiffman (not verified)
letting off steam

Whether it is good for us or bad for us, a sizeable segment of the population feel that the 2000 election was stolen and the bad feelings have been getting worse from there. A good number of otherwise upstanding people feel the need to show their feeling at this point in time. Some of these folk ride bikes and some less than stellar members of the metro area are also bike riders. We have seen what happens if pressure is not let out gradually. The NYPD appears to want to show their prowess at crowd control early in this convention period. One thing can easily morph into another thing. Look how the search for WMDS turned into nation building. None of us can predict if the demonstration would have escalated into chaos if left unchecked.
Some good people ride bikes, some rascals do too.
Oh what fools these mortals be.

Anonymous's picture
Rob Scott (not verified)
The message gets lost when the issues are mixed

I think cyclists should be able to ride through the streets without being harassed by Police, even en masse. Most of the time we are pretty invisible while motorists are a problem every day. The trouble with cyclists, as a group, is that they still see themselves as second class citizens compared to motorists. We should see ourselves as a preferred class, environmentally friendly and setting a positive example for the health of our fat, overweight, diabetes and heart disease ridden nation. Shame on the Mayor and the Police!

On the other hand, I don't think that Cycling Advocacy should be hijacked to support one or other political party unless one or other political party takes a stand either for or against Cycling Advocacy. Shame on us!

Anonymous's picture
Geo Carl Kaplan (not verified)
The message gets lost when the issues are mixed.

"Author: Rob Scott ([email protected])
Subject: The message gets lost when the issues are mixed

""I think cyclists should be able to ride through the streets without being harassed by Police, even en masse.""

So long as they do not interfere with the rights of others - motorists and pedestrians - to ride and walk through the streets safely and without obstruction.
"

Anonymous's picture
Rob Scott (not verified)
The message gets lost when the issues are mixed

I think cyclists should be able to ride through the streets without being harassed by Police, even en masse. Most of the time we are pretty invisible while motorists are a problem every day. The trouble with cyclists, as a group, is that they still see themselves as second class citizens compared to motorists. We should see ourselves as a preferred class, environmentally friendly and setting a positive example for the health of our fat, overweight, diabetes and heart disease ridden nation. Shame on the Mayor and the Police!

On the other hand, I don't think that Cycling Advocacy should be hijacked to support one or other political party unless one or other political party takes a stand either for or against Cycling Advocacy. Shame on us!

Anonymous's picture
Megan Smith (not verified)

"Police actions aside, I agree wholeheartedly with Rob's statement that ""We should see ourselves as a preferred class, environmentally friendly and setting a positive example for the health of our fat, overweight, diabetes and heart disease ridden nation. "" And, in general, most New Yorkers, it seems to me, are positively impressed by responsible, considerate and safety-minded riders: this simple act does more on a daily basis to influence public opinion (=votes)than any mass action. When pedestrians are continually faced with food-delivery guys run amok on the sidewalks and unruly kids on BMX bikes, what are they to think when they are confronted with a massive, intentionally obstructionist politically-tinged cycling event? How do they separate ""real"" cyclists from the guy who almost ran them down delivering take-out food on Park and Lexington---or the people they see erratically blocking traffic to make a point during a politically jittery time and being arrested in mass?"

Anonymous's picture
rjb (not verified)
critical mass

I was there (as a spectator) on Fri, and just to be clear, it was actually the POLICE that blocked off the streets and NOT the cyclists. As far as the obstruction issue, I don't buy it - 250 cyclists riding in a group don't block traffic any more than cars block traffic. Sure, they're slower, but 250 bikes also take up much less room than 250 people in cars. Besides, as long as bicycles are treated with the same rules as cars when on the road, the traffic congestion issue doesn't hold water. It's not illegal for 250 cars to drive at 15mph down B'way. Running red lights, etc. is another story.

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Excuse Me?

The news reports I read and participants I spoke with said there were several THOUSAND bikes, not 250. I think that's a pretty substantial difference.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/28/politics/campaign/28protest.html

Anonymous's picture
Geo Carl Kaplan (not verified)
critical mass

I, too, was a spectator, and it was not the police, but participants in the ride who blocked traffic at 11th Street - 12th Street - 13th Street - 15th Street - 16th Street - all Sixth Ave.

Anonymous's picture
rjb (not verified)

that's not what I saw - there were cars on B'way with the first wave(s) of riders, but then I saw the cops block it off. After all (or most) of the riders had passed, they let cars through - I saw them do that, too. I think they did it partially to funnel the riders to the 'end', so they couldn't escape arrest.

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Ya but

You also claim you saw 250 bikes when by all other accounts there were thousands. I know who I believe.

Anonymous's picture
Rob Scott (not verified)
Times Up & Critical Mass: Do they speak for us?

I agree that there are cyclists on the road that even infuriate me - a dedicated cyclist. Of course this is true for motorists and pedestrians as well. Everybody is capable of making the distinction between a bad motorist and a good one - they should be able to do that with cyclists too.

The problem is that many people don't believe that cyclists have ANY right to be on the road - even though the Traffic Code is quite clear that we have equal rights. The situation will only get worse if even we are defensive about our rights. We need to make our voice heard. It's better to do this without antagonizing people but it's really impressive how much attention this has got. NYCC should post details on the website to facilitate members contacting the Mayor and making it clear that cyclists vote too.

Anonymous's picture
anon (not verified)
Outreach

Good points.

Therefore IMHO, it's up to the management of cycling organizations and or local clubs to mobilize their membership and engage in a reapprochement with the City.

We desparately need to depoliticize the issue. Our key advocate in this should be Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff - he's a big cyclist from what I know.

It'd probably be best to approach this after the convention is over though.

Just my $.02. I was out on Saturday and Sunday, and couldn't help but feel like the police were watching where every cyclist was headed.

We advocate a sport and a lifestyle - not a political platform. The last thing we need is a NYC War on Cyclism.

Anonymous's picture
Ted (not verified)
Please, no!

If there is a NYC Cyclism, do we have to put up with Al Trout and Bobkie?

Now that is something I would protest.

Anonymous's picture
Bill Vojtech (not verified)
Hold on a second...

"You just gave me an idea:
Since the ""war on poverty"" started, poverty is up.
Since the ""war on drugs"" started, drug use is up.
A ""war on cycling"" could be the best thing to happen to the sport!"

Anonymous's picture
Chris T. (not verified)
Forget Dan Doctoroff

No way, Anon 7. This deputy mayor is humping the West Side stadium as part of the New York City 2012 Olympic Bid. Don't get me started on this bozo's attempt to justify spending 600 million in public tax money when we cannot build schools that are falling apart.

I'd rather have Doctor Kevorkian be my cycling advocate before Dan Doctoroff

Anonymous's picture
Isaac Brumer (not verified)
Times Up & Critical Mass: Do they speak for us?

"Everybody is capable of making the distinction between a bad motorist and a good one - they should be able to do that with cyclists too.

Bear in mind that ""motoring"" has benefited from a century-long industry-supported campaign to hone its image as prudent and essential. When it comes to cycling, it's up to us."

Anonymous's picture
MP (not verified)
Two wrongs...

"by law, cyclists do not have the ""right"" to block traffic, run red lights, etc. just as, by law, motor vehicles don't. but there is the law and there is reality. as one poster pointed out, motor vehicles seem to have carte blanche in this city. when was the last time you saw a taxi driver arrested for running a red light? when was the last time you saw a delivery driver arrested for an unlawful lane change?

my point is that in NYC, thousands of motor vechicles break the law every day with little or no reprecussions. but when 5,000 cyclists get together, it's treated by the media, police and, yes, cylcists, like world war 3. as cyclists, we should not be fighting each other. we should be uniting behind the fact that, yes, we are treated like second-class citizens while motorists get away with breaking laws on a regular basis.

that said, if you practice passive resistance and break the law, the police are going to nail you. that is what they have been trained to do. so don't whine if you spend 24 hours in an NYPD holding pen. but as people like ghandi, mlk and others have shown, if you have the cojones to organize and practice passive resistance over and over and over again, things do change.



"

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Doubtful

my point is that in NYC, thousands of motor vechicles break the law every day with little or no reprecussions.

First, where do you get your facts? Thousands break the law every day? I doubt it. And how do you know those that do are not ticketed? Are you seriously saying no traffic summonses are written in the city of New York?

As I've said in another thread, I personally see more cyclists than motor vehicles break the law every day. It's not even close. I've never seen a car driving the wrong way on a one way street, cyclists do it all the time. The majority of cars I see do stop at lights and stop signs, I rarely see cyclists do it (myself included) unless traffic conditions make it necessary. In fact I get away with way, way, way more violations on my bike than I do in my car. It's not even clse.

Still, no one has answered the question of what the 5000 cyclists hoped to accomplish with Friday's ride. Exactly what rights are they advocating by holding up traffic on a Friday night. I ride to work almost every day, I ride in CP at night and I race in CP and PP on weekends. I've never been harrassed or ticketed. Please explain exactly what rights I need that I don't have and how I'm treated as a second class citizen. And what exactly has Times Up and Critical Mass accomplished in this city to date?

Thank you to the poster who posted the Village Voice links. They are quite enlightening and given the source, the accounts are difficult to dismiss as being biased.

Anonymous's picture
Bill Vojtech (not verified)
Passive resistance is fine...

"But even Gandhi believed in the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. He wrote: ""Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest,"" from ""Gandhi, An Autobiography"", page 446

The reason being: “The state represents violence in a concentrated and organized form.”
–Mohandas Gandhi"

Anonymous's picture
Alfredo Garcia (not verified)
seeing the future

For better or wurst, accept Critical Mass. Unlike most bike clubs, although not organized, they have the youngest people around. And enthusiasm. Some could be upcoming Cycle Club members.

Anonymous's picture
Sarah (not verified)
interesting coverage from village voice

Here's some coverage about bikes and demos that's kind of interesting. The Voice has been doing a lot on it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/kamenetz/
http://villagevoice.com/issues/0435/baard.php

Full disclosure: My partner works there.

cycling trips