just a heads up...i need to move my sep 11 pancake ride up to sep 18. same start time and place.
sorry for any inconvenience,
don
(b16) pancake ride moved from sep 11 to sep 18
Sat, 08/28/2004 - 8:02pm
Sat, 08/28/2004 - 9:03pm
#1
Don, I think that's the date of ENY.
Sun, 08/29/2004 - 3:05pm
#2
yes, and i'll be 1603 miles away on sep 11. :)
Sat, 09/04/2004 - 8:51pm
#3
yes ENY is September 18th!
...and we'll have fruit, cookies, wraps, pb&j, nutella, and more for our riders...
Please join us!
perhaps the pancake ride could wait for another day in September?
Mon, 09/06/2004 - 3:07pm
#4
that's ok...
...i don't want to steer anyone away from eny but that's the only weekend in september i can lead a ride. have fun at eny...and post pics!!!
:)
don (from lajas via dialup...ugh!)
Tue, 09/07/2004 - 4:44pm
#5
Leading a ride in September
Hey Don,
If you'd like to lead a ride, it would be great if you could do it for ENY, we could use your help!
Mark Loftis is coordinating leaders: [email protected].
No pancakes, but plenty of cookies and ice-cream (not to mention the wraps!)
Thanks and hope to see you there :)
Lynn
Tue, 09/07/2004 - 6:54am
#6
nonetheless that is what you are doing
ENY is a club event and we've been planning it since the beginning of the year.
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 8:43am
#7
looking forward to seeing pictures. anyone who doesn't have an entire day to do eny is welcome to join me on my pancake ride at 9am on sep 18th.
:)
don
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 6:08am
#8
ENY vs other rides
Don - It's unfortunate that there's not another date that works for you for listing your ride. A huge amount of time and effort goes into planning and staging the ENY event, however, and one has to wonder whether it makes sense to list other rides on that day.
The level of disappointment in seeing another ride listed on the same day as ENY was expressed at last night's NYCC board meeting by the club leadership. All I ask is that you reconsider whether to list your ride on 9/18, in favor of joining us for a great day of cycling at ENY.
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 12:31pm
#9
i'm stuck on a carribian island without broadband (dialup max 5 minutes before being disconnected...don't ask) so i'll cut/paste my last email reply to wayne:
it's the only saturday i have open. is the nycc trying to
force people to do only the eny? i've never done eny.
never had the desire. i ride my bike for exercise...not
to socialize an entire day. i'm sure others in the club
would appreciate the chance to do a quick ride (that's
not eny) so they can continue to have the life off the
bike. :) i've received a few replies from people glad
there's a non-eny ride listed for that saturday. if the
board wants behave like a truckers union, let me know
and i'll cancel the ride.
don
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 2:48pm
#10
Don,
The club's longstanding policy is that we don't sanction other rides against certain rides, e.g., the major all-classes, ENY. Any independent rides on 9/18 will not be recognized as NYCC rides. They will not be listed in the weekly e-mail or the online ride listing (too late for the bulletin anyway.) You are free to ride whereever you wish, even post it on the message board and go to the boathouse on 9/18 and see who shows up. If it's ride leader credit you're after, please discuss that issue with Wayne.
Enjoy your trip and whichever ride you choose to lead.
Isaac
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 5:33pm
#11
leader credit kickbacks?! rides sanctioning?! wow, my biggest fears have come true...wait...i paid my dues...i paid my dues...
:/
don (former nycc teamsters board member)
isaac wrote:
we don't sanction other rides against certain rides
...[snip]...
If it's ride leader credit you're after
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 8:33pm
#12
ENYCC (nm)
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 8:48pm
#13
:-) JP (nm)
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 6:36am
#14
Hello? It's a club!
While I can understand the economic reasoning behind the suppression of competing ride listings, it seems to run contrary to member interest.
This is the New York Cycle Club. People working together to create compelling activities for its community. The membership elects a board to represent their interests. As such, the club has voted that 9/18 is ENY day. Dozens of people are volunteering their time and energy to make that day special. Those who don't want to participate can post on the message board and/or meet at the boathouse. What more should the club do for this person who clearly does not want to help make the club's communal event a success?
Wed, 09/08/2004 - 8:37pm
#15
Competing Ride Listings
Isaac and Wayne, NYCC Board, fellow members -
While I, myself, plan to ride ENY, I have to think that not posting alternative rides does the membership a disservice.
There may well be members who cannot devote the time to ride ENY, or don't have the interest in riding to the west-side start at Oh-my-god-thirty in the morning.
While I can understand the economic reasoning behind the suppression of competing ride listings, it seems to run contrary to member interest.
Perhaps this is a policy which should be reviewed with input from the membership.
Alternatively, how much revenue do I have to provide to NYCC to ensure an exclusive ride list day for one of my own rides?
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 10:05am
#16
fuggetaboutit
"
> While I, myself, plan to ride ENY, I have to think that
> not posting alternative rides does the membership a
> disservice.
i think the nycc ""commission"" accountant would have a different opinion. if da commission don't approve the ride, it don't get listed. parlet l'ingles?
> There may well be members who cannot devote the time
> to ride ENY, or don't have the interest in riding to the
> west-side start at Oh-my-god-thirty in the morning.
yeah...what he said.
> While I can understand the economic reasoning behind the
> suppression of competing ride listings, it seems to run
> contrary to member interest.
interests? since when does the costra nostra need an ""interest""...the only ""interest"" the nycc ""commission"" has is the amount of interest the money (that they strongarm from members) accrues in the bank. ya gotta pay yer dues and show up with a smile on yer face...wedda ya like it or not...got it? or ain't i typin' loud enough for ya?!
> Alternatively, how much revenue do I have to provide to
> NYCC to ensure an exclusive ride list day for one of my
> own rides?
i'd run that by uncle vinne before presenting any kind of deal to the nycc ""commission"". my guess is we will need to pay whether we ride eny or not...udderwise dare ain't gonna be no udda ride. got it? the commission laid the law down many generations ago...pay yer dues whedda ya like it or not...or risk slashed tires or broken thumb shifters.
ps, the pancake ride leaves from the boathouse at 9am sharp on sep 18th...leave your revolvers at home.
the don"
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 2:28pm
#17
ENY
I think a clarification is in order. Anyone not familiar with ENY might be led to believe from posts such as Don and Banana Guy's that ENY is run to build revenue for the club. In fact, the price of ENY goes to cover the costs of the event. Any and all profits are donated to cycling related charities such as Recycle-A-Bicycle.
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 3:54pm
#18
you're right, debbie...
"my original point is that the club doesn't have the right to ""sanction"" ONLY certain rides on specific dates. many of us don't have the time or even the desire to do a ride like eny. for the board to ""only sanction specific rides"" on certain dates robs members of their right to choose...and further, the OBLIGATION to give members a choice of rides OTHER than eny.
no where in the bylaws does it state the board has the right to force members to do only specific rides on any given date. i think the current board needs to get off their high horse. if the board wants a rule set in stone, then ammend the bylaws.
have a club vote to see what the members want...and remember, the board's decisions are not set in stone and can be overturned by majority vote. this ""custom"" is really irritating to some of us. let those who decide to do eny have the time of their lives...but the board has no right to rob members of their choice to pick another LISTED RIDE.
don (pancake ride leaves 9am sharp from boathouse sep 18th)"
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 4:41pm
#19
I'm gonna drop this after this post.
To Don and his admiring public (and anyone else concerned.)
Here are the facts:
Don had a ride scheduled for 9/11. He has cancelled it, due to unforseen travel. As an alternative, hes's leading a ride on 9/18 from the Boathouse, 9AM. This ride is listed here. It will not be listed in next week's e-mail. This is Don's ride. Any and all are free to participate. Don is free to recruit for it at the next club meeting. The club will not barricade the boathouse. Participants will be welcome at all future club events.
The club's premiere event, the Escape New York Century, meets 9/18 at Sakura Park, across from Grant's Tomb, 7:30-9:00 AM. All are welcome and invited.
Club members and ENY leaders asked Don very nicely to join in on ENY as they could actually use his help. Don declined, as is his right.
The club very much has the right to accept or reject rides. If Don were to submit a ride and another member were to submit a similar ride for the same day, I'd ask him to co-lead or re-schedule. If a third member were to submit a similar ride on that day, I might reject it, period. Don might appreciate this. This does not limit members' choice in any significant way. Independent people, even non-members, can post rides on this board, on Craig's List, on other social bulletin boards or can simply go to the Boathouse. People who join up with NYCC know that they can expect a well-thought-out assortment of vetted rides throughout the month, outstanding club-wide events and an unmatched education program.
This is a club, not an anarchist league.
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 6:42pm
#20
right...
"
> People who join up with NYCC know that they can expect a
> well-thought-out assortment of vetted rides throughout the
> month, outstanding club-wide events and an unmatched
> education program.
people who join the nycc are beginning to see how the board is force feeding eny to it's members. bye bye, choice...hello ""sactioning""...
> This is a club, not an anarchist league.
it's actually, it's looking more and more like a fascist regime.
the don
(we're leaving at 9am sharp on sep 18th...easy spin to northvale and back...no fee)"
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 7:41pm
#21
"It's not about revenue, it's not about high horses and it's definitely not about sanctioning. It's about the entire club getting behind our premier annual event one day out of the year. For the 10 years ENY has existed it has been club policy that on ENY day - one day a year - no other rides are listed. So far, that's never been a problem.
You keep talking about ENY as though it was only one ride. As I'm sure you know, that is not the case. There are 3 different routes and within each route there are several options for pace and ride style, 11 different rides in all. That's more choice than exists on most regular ride days.
No one is forcing you to participate in ENY, you were asked nicely by several people, board members and ordinary club members if you would find another day. If you can't, you can't. Labeling the board ""Cosa Nostra"" and fascist because of a policy that has been in place with no complaint for 10 years, involves only one day a year and in fact offers many choices of rides is a bit over the top I think, not to mention unfair."
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 7:24am
#22
"no tom...what's unfair is not allowing (by refusing to list...or refusing to ""sanction"") non-eny rides on that date. policy? what policy? there's no by-law that states the nycc can hijack a weekend day to run a cash cow event that deprives those of us who are NOT INTERESTED in eny from alternative LISTED rides.
let's see...unwritten ""policies""...hijacking sep 18th...kickbacks...sanctions...if it looks like cosa nostra and smells like cosa nostra, it's cosa nostra.
don ""not a facist""
(pancake ride leaves 9am sharp from the boathouse sep 18th...pace busters will ride back in a trunk)"
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 8:14am
#23
Yup
Several years ago, I volunteered to lead an alternative ride, for those who preferred not to participate in (ie: pay for) ENY. The co-ordinator refused to list it, and I refused to lead any more rides.
Interestingly enough, I noticed ENY markers on a route that I originally scouted and led club rides on. Hey, maybe I'm owed a kickback!
Mon, 09/13/2004 - 4:48pm
#24
Mr. Brummer
"
To Don and his admiring public (and anyone else concerned.)
Isaac: While I may disagree with your posts and object to your imperious attitudes, I am NOT in strict admiration of Mr Montalvo, and I am offended my your characterization.
Here are the facts:
Thank you for the ""facts""
The club very much has the right to accept or reject rides. If Don were to submit a ride and another member were to submit a similar ride for the same day, I'd ask him to co-lead or re-schedule. If a third member were to submit a similar ride on that day, I might reject it, period.
Please let us know how ENY and Don's ride are similar, beyond the obvious date issue.
This is a club, not an anarchist league.
Neither should it be an oligarchy. Remember the club comprises its members. The interests of the membership need to be represented. This includes, to the greatest extent possible, all of its members, great and small, as well as all of its interest groups.
(btw: your reactionary invocation of the term ""anarchist"" might lead one to suspect your political leanings, and to distrust your motives)"
Thu, 09/09/2004 - 11:07am
#25
gratuitous insults
A constructive and civil discussion could be had as to the merits of holding exclusive club rides. Mocking the board is unwarranted and unconvincing.
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 11:18am
#26
buurrppp
'squeeze me
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 8:43am
#27
Speaking of By-Laws
"Maybe you ought to give them a read Don:
Article III, Section 6:
The decisions of a majority of The Board shall become the policy of the club unless reversed by a two thirds majority vote of the club membership in accordance with Article V.
You can check out article V for yourself, the by-laws are posted on the ""Join The Club"" page.
It's funny you used the ""cash cow"" and ""Kick-back"" arguments in your latest post when you had conceded in an earlier post that such is not the case, the club derives no profit at all from ENY. As to unfair, there is a committee of about 10 people who have been working to put together ENY for nearly a year. I think it would be grossly unfair to them and the many other ENY volunteers if the club were to list competing rides. It is also counter productive to the idea of holding a showcase event like ENY if we were to compete against it with our own rides.
And Fixer, ENY has used virtually the same route for the past 5 years. The creater of the route is none other than the great Fred Steinberg. When exactly did you scout your route? Maybe you owe Fred a kick-back."
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 9:38am
#28
By-Laws, kick-backs, ENY and all that other good stuff
"By-Laws, kick-backs, ENY and all that other good stuff maybe easily found here:
NYCC Site Map
Kick-back and enjoy.
Peter
(guilty as charged of straying off topic)"
Fri, 09/10/2004 - 11:13am
#29
dang it tom...i hate it when you're right :(
"> Maybe you ought to give them a read Don:
>
> Article III, Section 6:
> The decisions of a majority of The Board shall become
> the policy of the club unless reversed by a two thirds
> majority vote of the club membership in accordance
> with Article V.
ok, i lost that one. i still think the policy sucks. blocking non-eny ride listings is a pretty sorry way of ensuring the success of eny. i think it sends the wrong signal to members...current and future members.
> You can check out article V for yourself, the by-laws
> are posted on the ""Join The Club"" page.
i know, i know...i was the person who dug up a printed set of bylaws, scanned them and asked robin (the original web master/mistress) if she could make them available to the club. i have the 2400dpi original scans if someone wants to tweak the words a bit... ;)
in any case, the NON LISTED, NON SANCTIONED AND NON-ANTI-ENY pancake ride is leaving on time...9am, sep 18th.
""leave your pocket rockets at home"" - bob moulder
don (shot in the leg, but still limping)
"
Sat, 09/11/2004 - 3:50pm
#30
Even if we disagree
You're still a mensche in my book. Enjoy your ride and have a pancake for me.
The rest of you make sure you come out for ENY!!!
Sat, 09/11/2004 - 5:50pm
#31
"hey vinnie...tom called me a ""mensche""..."
...look that up for me, will ya? the pancake ride leaves 9am sep 18th from the boathouse...make sure your bills are dry and keep your big ring at home.
;)
the don
Mon, 09/13/2004 - 9:37am
#32
your contribution
Oh, so much to complain about!
I'm reading these e-mails about Don's ride conflicting with ENY, the clubs annual premier event, and it brings me to a laugh.
There are some comments made regarding the board and it's actions that I would like to address.
There were a lot of thing about the club I liked when I became a member and some things I didn't.
So I decided to do something about it. I became a member of the board, as your VP, programs.
Let me tell you how much I earn from the membership's dues and events for being involved.
I attend the board meetings.
my costs: carfare & dinner neither of which is reimbursed by the membership.
For this privilege I return home about 9:30 pm the first Tuesday of the month.
I put in a substantial number hours a month planning the program meetings.
I attend the monthly program meeting.
I pay to eat just like everyone else.
I spend my time making sure everyone has a good time.
For this privilege I return home about 10 pm the second Tuesday of the month.
The bottom line is this. The board meets to discuss and plan agenda’s that would be beneficial and in the best interest of the club. We work very hard at this and try to take a fair and even approach with member’s needs and the clubs best interest, which is always, long run, the member’s best interest. We don’t always agree but we come to a consensus.
Sometimes the members don’t get what they want. But if they can step away from their own self-interest and realize things are done for a reason, then, for the good of all, they should be gracious enough to step back.
That being said, there is another alternative.
Join the board. Give some time, your hard work and input that forms the decisions you may or may not agree with. See what relay goes into them. Maybe you won’t be so quick to criticize.
Board election, it just so happens, start tomorrow.
Anyone interested in contributing rather than complaining or second guessing us?
Hal
Mon, 09/13/2004 - 12:28pm
#33
tom laskey for president! (nm)
"hal, the ""kickback"" comments are a responce to issac's comment early in the thread:
issac wrote:
If it's ride leader credit you're after, please discuss that issue with Wayne.
;)
don"
Mon, 09/13/2004 - 4:52pm
#34
HAL-They still ain't gonna let you be club president.
so stop kissing up.
Mon, 09/13/2004 - 7:09pm
#35
on a diff note
there's a forecast for rain...that would be way too unfortunate....any idea when a posting might go up for rain announcements? friday evening?
Fri, 09/17/2004 - 7:04am
#36
i'll post around 8am sat. -don
Sat, 09/18/2004 - 3:20am
#37
forecast calls for rain all day...ride is called off.
sorry folks, but it's wet now and the forecast calls for rain all day.
don
Tue, 09/14/2004 - 12:58pm
#38
keeping the club strong
Don, your response is appreciated. I know you are a long term and well-respected member of the club. You and I have ridden together a number of times and it’s always been fun. You are very supportive. I don’t think it’s too much to ask all members to show some form of leadership and when a member of the board, acting within their purview, makes a request of a member that is not illegal, dangerous or fattening that the member would comply. It is even more strongly expected if the board sanctions the request. As stated previously, we work very hard, in the best interest of our membership, and would appreciate the support of the members even when [or maybe especially when] they don’t agree with a decision. Decisions need to be made. No organization ever survives if people can’t deal with not always getting their way. We listen to everything members say and every request to a board member is brought up at the meeting. So trust us. Work with us. This is what makes the club great. This is what makes the club work. That is what gets the volunteers to volunteer. And, again, rather than disagree, join us on the board [there’s room for you] have your voice heard and help make the decisions.
And Vinny, believe me, my ego is already big enough and at what you guys pay me I don’t need to do any kissing up. Hal
Wed, 09/15/2004 - 7:52pm
#39
irv just rolled over
hal wrote:
join us on the board [there’s room for you]
Tue, 09/14/2004 - 2:03pm
#40
don -contact
don, tired to reach you at your e-mail address directly and it didn't go through.
can you send me a direct contact? thanks hal
Sun, 09/19/2004 - 9:09am
#41
Pancake Ride
It was the wrong ride, at the wrong time, for the wrong reason. I voted for Don's right to schedule the ride, not for him to actually do it!
John
http://communistsforkerry.com/
Mon, 09/27/2004 - 6:19pm
#42
Ancient Montenegrin folk saying
"""The sipper who does not like the taste of his tea will not influence the tea room owner by making wind in the teapot.
""Nor will the tearoom owner gain customers by passing gas in their faces."""
