Having some early season knee pain and want to be refit by a roak bike pro here in Manhattan. Was professionally fit last year in Brooklyn, but don't want to ride all the way out there. I know all the major bike shops, but have never used their fitting services. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!
Best bike fitter in Manhattan?
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 8:37am
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 8:57am
#1
Craig Upton
This question gets asked a lot, and you will find many answers if you do a search for bike fit.
I used Craig Upton and was extremely happy with the fit. The fit has been working very well for me.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 8:59am
#2
See previous thread
Message board search yielded this thread:
http://www.nycc.org/mb/Thread.aspx?B=1&T=1524&TP=1#Msg5937
Personally, I had good luck at Sid's with Alan.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 8:59am
#3
fit
Craig Upton, 917-353-4083, takes his time, gets it right. I can highly recommend his custom footbeds as well. He heats them up and puts them in your shoe. While they are still warm you hop on the bike and pedal so you end up with a bed that form fits exactly how you pedal. Very comfortable. Also try a search on this board and you will come away with 5-10 shops that people have had good luck with.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 9:05am
#4
Thanks. In the past 90 days I found Craig Upton (212-749-7971) and John at Conrad's.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 9:32am
#5
nm
"Interesting that John was recommended. I had him fit me for my bike and it was 2.25"" off. Went to Craig and we both looked at each other in amazement after doing all the calculations/measurements and we raised the saddle that much; after I had raised it myself a few mm's. Go to Craig. Money well spent."
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 12:52pm
#6
Too low, too high, or just right?
"""I had him fit me for my bike and it was 2.25"" off...and we raised the saddle that much""
This is unbelievable! A popular technique for setting saddle height is to raise it a little at a time until your hips start to rock. Then lower it just enough to stop the rocking.
If your hips aren't rocking after raising your saddle 2.25"" , you must have had it WAY too low! If your hips are rocking, you're too high now.
Lemond's famous ""0.883 x inseam"" formula tends to be a little too low for some people, but not by 2-1/4 inches.
""Chainwheel""
"
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 9:33am
#7
popular technique
I've heard of this popular technique also, problem is that its a myth. Something as simple as your saddle being too wide will create rocking of the hip, or pedaling incorrectly. Neither are related to saddle height.
Lemond's method is also bogus. How can you base a saddle height of 1 measurement, surely the placement of your knee is critical, let alone the length of your foot (the distance from the ball of your foot to ankle effects the saddle position).
You need to find a method that involves structual integrety, which means placing your skeleton in the correct place on your bike. The muscles will adapt to any position, but if your skeleton is out of kilter you'll cause stress on all your joints and eventually end up with injuries.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 10:57am
#8
Is there a perfect saddle position?
Glad you've joined the discussion.
I find with a higher saddle (provided that one is flexible enough to reach the bar) is great for a more powerful spin at high RPM for short fast rides. You can come down with more force with better leg extension (and you feel like you’re riding down hill!).
I find for longer less aggressive riding, a slightly lower and back position gives me a more efficient spin up long climbs while seated.
Why do many Triathletes like to push big gears? Is that a mechanical advantage for their position? Or they just don’t know how to ride?
Please enlighten us without giving away any trade secrets.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 12:31pm
#9
A higher saddle generally provides more torque on the pedals, usually aiding in climbing. Most people slide backwards while climbing because they are looking for more leg extension..... Whereas a lower saddle tends to help one spin, or rather turn the gears faster. This is why when you see people riding extremely hard the creep forward on the saddle. This effectively shortens your leg extension, helping to turn the gear faster. So there is a tradeoff.
Triatheletes are diffenent setup. They move much further forward and bent-over enabling them to use their Glutes more (if you can picture the hind legs of a horse - its a similar position). This gives them more power - but to get into this position you need aero-bars, hence no-body rides like this during normal road riding.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 12:48pm
#10
Thanks for your explanation.
>if you can picture the hind legs of a horse
I try not to have this mental image while riding behind somebody, Roadies or Tri’s ( :-o)
Cheers
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 12:55pm
#11
no problem - happy to help. Just beware of the eye-ball method ... I fit well over 100 people in the last 6 months alone, and still cannot eye-ball someone. It requires measuring.
When someone is pedaling it creates terrible optical illusions - Just like when you wiggle a pencil and it looks like its made of rubber.
Tue, 04/20/2004 - 10:31am
#12
A case in point...
"""The muscles will adapt to any position, but if your skeleton is out of kilter you'll cause stress on all your joints...""
This guy looks like he could raise his saddle a bit.
http://www.needham.mec.edu/Newman/kidsatwork/museum_of_sci/skelbike.jpg
""Chainwheel"""
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 10:39am
#13
How much?
'bout how much does Craig charge for a session?
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 11:30am
#14
From my search of the board it seems $125 plus $40 or so for custom shoe inserts.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 11:46am
#15
Charge for fit and other services
I paid him $125, the soles are not required for proper fit. Changes felt a bit odd at first but noticeably better.
He also does lactate threshhold testing and coaching. I highly recommend his programs. I currently work with him and have seen empirical evidence of great power improvement.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 3:51pm
#16
Bike Fit
Personally, I would recommend Happy Freedman. Not only did he specify and fit my roadbike, but I ended up marrying him! ;)
But seriously, Happy will expertly address the biomechanics of your riding style/goals and take the time to work with you in determining the best fit.
917-664-4889
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 8:24pm
#17
I Recommend Happy Also
I also recommend Happy from personal experience. He did a fitting for me last year. He took a lot of time to get things right. He is very knowledgeable and has amazing powers of observation, probably from his medical background. Also he's a very nice guy. I can't say enough good stuff about him. He gets my highest recommendation. He is the coach for Columbia University's bike racing team.
Wed, 04/14/2004 - 6:09pm
#18
"Another Vote for ""Smiley"" Upton"
"I went to Craig for a fitting and he raised my seat about 2"". Holy S**T I thought ""This is nuts."" Well, what was nuts was riding with my bike so out of whack for so long. The difference in my riding is not subtle, I'm actually using my hamstrings!! And the occasional knee pain I would get is little more than a memory.
You can talk about wheels, materials, Shimano vs. Campagnolo and a lot of other incidentals. But if your bike doesn't fit just right, none of that stuff is going to matter, you'll never get the most out of your ride."
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 9:05am
#19
What’s up with the High Chairs?
You’re the second post to have CU jack up the saddle 2+ inches! How much forward did you move the saddle?
I can see how the hamstrings will help the hip flexors on the upstroke, but doesn’t it hurt where the sun don’t shine?
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 10:15am
#20
"He moved the seat forward a few MM. When I first got on after the change I thought this is nuts, my legs are locking out like crazy. Then Craig said ""Feels like your legs are locking out doesn't it?"" Well, yeah it did. Then Craig held up a mirror so I could see how my legs looked when the peddles were at 6:00 and 12:00. Not even close to a lock-out. My brain was so used to the lower seat position, the change freaked it out.
As far as pain in the nether regions there is a slight complication which I think is caused by the change in my upper body position - leaning more forward - due to the bars being a greater distance below the seat than they were before. That seems to be subsiding however and probably changing my saddle (Selle Italia Flite) which was never that comfortable will fix the situation entirely.
I'll keep ya'll posted."
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 9:39am
#21
I would have raised it a little at a time.
Two inches is quite a jump indeed!
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 11:37am
#22
Yes that's the conventional wisdom yet, my experience defies it. Craig said it would take a few rides for me to get used to the new seat height and that's pretty much the way it worked.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 2:24pm
#23
1st poster of 2 inches
My saddle moved up a few as well. The knee pain has subsided and I definitely have felt the hamstrings being used more. It takes a few rides of getting used to.
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 10:20am
#24
Raised mine an inch
When I went into the fit, I warned him ahead of time that I thought the bike was too big for me.
He then proceeded to raise the seat and inch and had me get a stem that was 1cm longer.
I ride on an aspide and have not had the nether region problems. The flite saddle caused me a lot of pain. It is a personal thing.
My understanding of the reason for extending the reach is to help you maintain a flat back. I find that when I get tired I start to round out my back, and slump back on the saddle. The proper reach prevents me from being able to slump and helps keep me in proper form.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 1:01pm
#25
Just a small clarification here.... The proper reach is to maintain a neutral spine as opposed to a 'flat' back. Which often gets confused and makes people over stretch.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 1:39pm
#26
"Yes! ""Flat"" back . . . ."
"I always thought I was riding with a ""flat"" back whereas I now believe it possible that it was instead arched, perhaps even contributing eventually to a large herniated disc which required surgery . . . . . it's very hard to know when you are ""neutral"" instead of ""flat"" -- I suppose that's why you're there, Craig! (And I'm glad to hear it's not $200. . . .)"
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 3:01pm
#27
Body awareness and self plug
">it's very hard to know when you are ""neutral"" instead of ""flat"" -- I suppose that's why you're there, Craig!
Yes it helps to have a trained eye to help with body positioning, but you can also help yourself to develop your own body awareness by practicing the slower forms of yoga (most gym yoga tends to be more of a workout). It compliments most sports on a physical and mental level. As a matter of fact, Happy tells me Serrotta fitters use Yoga instructors as part of their training program.
It's my opinion that when you have body awareness, you can also go by how something feels along with measurements. So even when something is drasticly wrong (like 2 inches!), one can tell long before they injure themselves. With all the different bodytypes and riding styles, I believe bike fitting is every bit an art as much as science.
Enjoy the first great weekend of riding! 70's and 80's woohoo!
"
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 8:49am
#28
Price for a bike fit
Craig is now charging $150 for a fitting.
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 11:03am
#29
bike fit
John at Conrads knows what he is doing and I will continue to reccomend him. Possibly your seat post dropped down or some other issue. One should be careful what is posted on this board. People have to work for a living and go on reputation and personality. Craig has his bike fit philosophy and so does John and as well someone else.
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 11:03am
#30
Craig
He just upped it to $200.
Thu, 04/15/2004 - 11:16am
#31
supply and demand for a good service I guess
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 9:34am
#32
Price
Currently charging $150 (takes approx 2hrs) custom foot beds are an additional $40.
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 9:24am
#33
Is the $150 for one time only or is there any follow-up?
I would think that some fine tuning would be needed after the initial adjustment.
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 12:04pm
#34
I've never had to fine tune anyone (100+ fittings in the last 6 months). But am more than happy to help.
Fri, 04/16/2004 - 12:23pm
#35
John at Conrads
Irv and I have always found John at Conrad's helpful. Irv considers him to be a knowledgeable mechanic--well worthy of recommendation.
Sat, 04/17/2004 - 10:13am
#36
"I was talking to a friend in Central park, and mentioned something about John. My friend's response was ""Oh. You mean the a'hole?"" - Turns out that she bought some expensive ($7,000+) custom Italian bike through him, and he did the fitting and arranged with the manufacturer for the custom frame. Once she got the bike, she noticed that she was waaaay over-extending her arms in order to reach the handlebars. They tried lots of stuff to get the bike to fit right, but nothing would work short of turning the stem backwards. After a while, she decided to call the frame's manufacturer herself. When she gave them the frame's number, the manufacturer told her that that was not a custom frame, but a store stock. She sued Conrad's and won.
Posting anonymously since I don't want any hate email
"
Sat, 04/17/2004 - 10:53am
#37
that's odd...john is one of the most honest and knowledgeable people i've ever known in all the bike shops in nyc. i'm sure whatever or whoever was behind the overcharge, it didn't involve john himself (can't comment on the others at conrad's).
:/
don
Sat, 04/17/2004 - 7:22pm
#38
Similar Story
I don't remember who told me, but I heard a similar story about Conrad's selling a stock frame as custom. I don't know if the story referred to this same incident or to a different one.
Tue, 04/20/2004 - 5:30am
#39
Could of been the manufacturer's error in supplying a stock frame rather than Conrad's bad in ordering a stock frame.
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 5:26am
#40
Something is way off the mark here.
I have known John and the others at Conrad's for years. Their reputation and service is impeccable as far as I am concerned. I hate to say that I don't believe this story. Conrad's, as far as I know, does not sell any custom Italian frames. Apparently, your friend was measured for the frame that she was going to buy, thinking she was getting a custom frame, when in fact the measuring was for the proper frame size.
Either the manufacturer sent the wrong size or there was a gross error on the part of Conrads. Hard to believe that John would not do everything he could to make this right.
Sued? I doubt it. John probably just refunded her money.
I would love to hear the whole story from both sides.
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 5:56am
#41
Thank you for posting this reply from above this posting. I was just talking about the same thing about John and was going to reply. I only have had great experiences with John. When I am ready for a custom bike I will use him and continue to go to Conrads for all my cycling needs as I always do.
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 10:33pm
#42
"i must second the notion that the posting regarding the $7,000 italian bike simply does not make sense. in fact, as i have pointed out in the past, john goes to great lengths to ensure that you do not spend unnecessarily. additionally, when i had problems with the fit on my first ""custom"" frame, john spent a great deal of time with me to try to solve the problem and i had not even bought the bike from him. when i finally decided that nothing seemed to be working, he tried to prevent me from buying a bike from him. i have had no personal experience with craig upton or some of the others mentioned in this thread (although i did have a miserable experience with the shop that sold me the first ""custom frame""), but for my money, conrad's had the right combination of support and service that i wanted, not to mention his pick-up and delivery service. if you are going to spend absurd amounts on a bike, absent going to a kellogg (sp?) or sachs, i think conrad's is one of the best places to do it at. interestingly, no one in this thread has mentioned paul levine, the serotta rep who has a fitting studio in manhattan at ashphalt green. people who have worked with him in the past have sung his praises as well. finally, i would suggest that many of these war stories make little sense in the context that your bike fit, unless you ride throughout the year (even through the snow), is likely to change a little, compounded by the fact that we are all, like it or not, continuing to age..."
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 8:53am
#43
This story is not credible
"not because it’s source is anonymous.
There could have been many incidences with unsatisfied customers. The story as it is posted here is all hearsay and the details don’t make any sense. Nobody in their right mind would buy a custom $7000 bike as their first ride. They should have some idea of range of sizes they can ride.
I can’t even picture a ""backward stem?""
If there was an error in top tube measurement or fabrication, do you really need to sue to get your money back?
–
I don’t know John, and I don’t frequent Conrad’s"
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 9:07am
#44
Will at Toga gets my recommendation! (nm)
Mon, 04/19/2004 - 12:00pm
#45
Well I hate you.
Tue, 04/20/2004 - 7:35am
#46
Hate?
Well, hate let's you know you're alive, even if squalid!
Tue, 04/20/2004 - 9:44pm
#47
this reminds me...
"When I was in college I worked in a bike shop one summer. Once in a while we would get a customer who would complain about their bike. We'd check it out, even test ride it and find no problem.
On the repair ticket we'd write ""tighten nut on seat"", so that whoever rang up the repair knew what to expect.
One such customer was amazed that her gear problem was caused by ""the nut on the seat."" She was delighted that we ""fixed"" the problem.
Knowing John and Conrad's, I think this is a ""nut on the seat"" problem."
Tue, 04/20/2004 - 11:21pm
#48
Urban Biking Legend doubted
Sorry Anon, your story is as believable as doing a lap of Central Park in 7 minutes
Don't worry about receiving email. Instead, find the record of said civil suit in West Law or appropriate source.
Wed, 04/21/2004 - 9:00am
#49
Best bike fitter in Manhattan
Sid's Bike Shop 235 East 34th Street get's my vote! Ask for Alan or Zoltan they both took time out do my fitting, and their prices were very reasonable and the service & staff are great.
