It seems that for nearly every cycling component, there's at least one carbon fiber product available--stems, handlebars, brake/shifters, seatposts, cranksets, saddles, etc. They're always more expensive and usually lighter, but how durable are they? Do they work as well?One stark contrast: the '04 Campy Chorus and Record groups are festooned with it, while the '04 Dura Ace doesn't have a trace.
For example, CF handlebars, stems and seatposts are routinely marketed as offering far better shock absorption; is this actually true? I'd love to hear some club member's opinions about components they've bought and used.
Carbon fiber components
Tue, 03/02/2004 - 6:11am
Tue, 03/02/2004 - 5:20pm
#1
Why I bought CF brake levers:
They match my black bike, period. If I could have found black aluminum levers (does anyone do anodizing in NYC?) I would have bought those instead. I've seen what they look like after a crash and it's not pretty - alu definitely holds up better - but crashworthiness isn't the issue anyway.
Shock absorption, hmmm, that's a marketing term, isn't it? Some people claim they can feel a difference, others say they can't. If you paid a bundle for the latest high-zoot components you'd have to be pretty damn secure to admit you couldn't tell the difference.
CF bars and stems scare me - there's an area of the bike you'd never want to fail. Ditto the seatpost, g-d forbid. The weight difference between many high-end alu parts and their CF counterparts (no pun intended) is minimal - if you're not a lightweight the weight savings you might realize might not be worth the added risk.
CF parts (and frames) have indeed broken, but so have aluminum and steel parts and frames so that in itself is meaningless until someone provides failure rate comparisons.
CF is sometimes lighter (unless, as in certain applications, it has to be ridiculously overbuilt to have any structural integrity) and it definitely looks sexy, and that may be reason enough ;^/
Wed, 03/03/2004 - 10:03am
#2
steel
Steel is real.
Wed, 03/03/2004 - 11:16am
#3
Steel is real
"George,
Do you use steel handlebars on your road bike? Steel stem? Steel crank? Steel brake levers and calipers? Steel rims? Steel hubs? Well, I do have all of those on my commuter bike, but I wouldn't call it more ""real"" than my road bikes with aluminum alloy components, though it is a bit heavier.
""Steel is real"" is a nonsensical and mindless slogan, like ""derailleurs are for failures"" or ""gears are for queers."""
Wed, 03/03/2004 - 1:21pm
#4
Derailleurs
Derailleurs are indeed for failures. One gear and no coasting make all men equal :)
Wed, 03/03/2004 - 2:14pm
#5
one more
I broke a saddle last year - the CF rails twisted out of their bonded attachment points (when bunny-hops go bad at 40mph...) but the rails themselves did not break. Still, when I replaced the saddle it was with the ti-railed model.
Thu, 03/04/2004 - 6:50am
#6
I owned a carbon frame for 10 years, aluminum lugs and carbon tubes, crashed twice heavily and it still is rollin'. Had a carbon post crack, but that was due to inproper clamping. Have had many carbon items and they are still holding up strong. I have personally seen ti, aluminum, and steel frames fail. Never a carbon one.
Oh yes, a carbon frame is every bit , if not more comfortable then a ti frame. Soaks up road buzz quite nicely.
Thu, 03/04/2004 - 7:05am
#7
buzz soaking?
Oh yes, a carbon frame is every bit , if not more comfortable then a ti frame. Soaks up road buzz quite nicely.
This is commonly known as the Placebo Effect.
Thu, 03/04/2004 - 3:37pm
#8
Placebo Effect?
What are you on?
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 8:02am
#9
Yo Slippy
Have you ever ridden a carbon frame?
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 9:56am
#10
Yes.
"Caught the carbon craze in the 80s, rode the Ti wave in the 90s, and my Cannondale tourer is still seeing beater duty. And I've taken test loops on lots of friends' latest toys. But my keeper, which btw will turn 25 this year, is Reynolds 531. Mostly for aesthetic reasons, as I'll stand by my assertion that tire pressure has waaaaaaaaay more effect on ""ride quality"" than frame material.
As for CF bars and seatposts, well no, I haven't taken the bait. But do you really need to swallow the whole bottle of snake oil just to know that it won't cure cancer?"
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 4:37pm
#11
Broken Carbon
I've seen at least 2 carbon frames break, both during the Tour De France.
Lance Armstrong broke a carbon chainstay, just last year. Also, during the late 90's, I recall a Look carbon frame's headtube, hanging by threads after a crash.
I can't recall the exact year.
It is documented that as recently as 1999, Lance Armstrong was, in fact, riding titanium, although the bike was painted to look like a Trek OCLV, with Trek decals. I wonder why he'd make such an effort? Regardless, here's the Sports Illustrated link on the swap of carbon for titanium:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1999/tour_de_france/news/1999/0...
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 9:35pm
#12
Lance's TDF Bike
was an ultralite - stupidlite - prototype. It was known then that his time trial frames were made by Litespeed. Do you remember the crash where Laurent Jalabert broke his jaw in the early 90s? Did you see his bike?
I crashed my carbon frame in a sprint doing 30mph when another rider got too close to my rear wheel and stuck his pedal in my spokes. I cried as I slid along and watched my bike go end over end. The hell with road rash - my bike!! All that happened a scratched fork. Carbon can be tough!
Sat, 03/06/2004 - 10:27am
#13
""" Lance's TDF Bike...was an ultralite - stupidlite - prototype
JK,
Which Armstrong bike are you writing about?
I'd be surprised if Armstrong, or anyone with a vested interest in his success, would allow him to ride a prototype bike during the TDF!
During the '03 Tour, his carbon bikes (8 or 9 of them) were made just for him, with added weight & strength advantages over any Trek OCLV/carbon frame made for consumers or even the other US Postal riders.
Sat, 03/06/2004 - 4:27am
#14
The jury is still out
"""Lance Armstrong broke a carbon chainstay, just last year.""
This happened when he crashed after tangling with a spectator's bag. If you watch the video, you'll see that another rider (Iban Mayo) rode right over Lance's bike when he was down. Not what I would call a JRA (just riding along) failure.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage15/tdf2003-armstrong-mayo-u-67
The early Trek carbon frames were known to crack, but their recent models seem more reliable.
I recall another TdF rider finishing a stage with a broken carbon handlebar. And Jan Ullrich was using carbon rims when he rode off the road during a descent a few years ago. He claimed that he had inadequate braking.
Here's a photo of a broken Colnago carbon crank:
http://www.serotta.com/forum/attachment.php?s=9935a2edb6ddd7313fbc15725168c6ce&postid=6286
I think the jury is still out on the long term durability of CF. Carbon's propensity for failing without warning is what concerns me.
""Chainwheel"""
Sat, 03/06/2004 - 7:11am
#15
The jury is still out -- But on which counts?
"I don't completely disagree. But for me, the issue of JRA (Just Riding Along) failure is what matters. Perhaps someday I'll be a sufficiently powerful cyclist to have a ""pro"" crash at 30+ MPH, but I'm not holding my breath.
So from that perspective, carbon appears to have proved itself. Alu and steel chainstays break too. While you can't ride a broken carbon chainstay for long, I'm guessing you'll probably get away with a scary change in handling (which may dump you anyway) rather than having the frame simply break in two at speed.
Cranks? Campy Nuovo Records probably broke more than any other crank ever made. It's not a new issue, and it's not unique to Carbon.
But I do agree that the ""test of time"" is uniquely meaningful. There are a lot of 30yr old Campy and other parts out there that still give good service. Will that be true for Carbon? We'll see.
Do I buy the stuff? No. The weight difference doesn't mean much to me, and the ""stealth"" look leaves me cold. As it is, the difficulty of finding quality silver bars, stems and rims means my bike is already blacker than I'd like.
Peter Storey"
Sat, 03/06/2004 - 7:53am
#16
Nouvo Record Cranks
"You're right about the NR cranks. Jobst Brandt claims to have broken some two dozen of them (mostly at the pedal eye) over a 40 year period. He uses Dura Ace now.
From an injury perspective, I'd rank forks as the most critical item, followed by wheels, handlebars, stems, and cranks.
I've heard of some CF fork failures, but relatively few considering how many are in use. (I suspect that liability concerns keep manufacturers from making stupid light forks.) Still, I don't think I'd feel safe riding a 10 year old CF fork, stem, or handlebar.
One big downside to CF is that it's hard to tell if it's been weakened if it's been involved in a minor crash.
BTW, you don't have to be a pro to have a 30 mph crash. Most of us coast down hills faster than that.
""Chainwheel""
"
Sat, 03/06/2004 - 9:57am
#17
"""I think the jury is still out on the long term durability"""
"Chainwheel,
I agree with you entirely, particularly about carbon's propensity to fail without warning since this is simply risk to life & limb!
While I, personally, am not a fan of aluminum for durability or comfort, at least you see aluminum start to fail before the failure becomes catastrophic. Last year, a cycling buddy who weighs about 190 lbs & races CRCA cracked a fairly new aluminum frame; you could easily see hairline cracks beneath the paint & he continued to race & do the Gimbels rides for about 2 weeks. While I do not think it's wise to continue to ride a cracked frame & I told him so, at least he had warning. He switched away from aluminum to another material & is now happy...& safe.
Regarding Lance Armstrong's broken carbon Trek frame last year, you're right, he was not ""just riding along"" but then again, no accident can be described as ""just riding along."" A few years ago, the 2 manager's of Sid's Bike Shop spoke at a club meeting & noted that after the Tour De France, the pros bikes are either crushed & destroyed or, if it's a star rider like Armstrong, the bikes are auctioned as collector's items. In other words, pro riders have very different expectations & uses for their bikes than we do.
A few years ago, I rode with the manager of a NYC shop; he was hit by a car - not only was his titanium frame not broken, the frame was still perfectly alligned, according to the shops head mechanic.
Aside from crashes, carbon fatigues from ultraviolet light - yes, sunshine - as well as scratches in it's surface.
Perhaps carbon was/is the answer to the bike industries mature life cycle position. Why sell a bike, made of a material that will last, when the consumer can be sold something that will require periodic replacement; it's an annuity income stream for the manufacturers & shops that sell carbon. I've had 3 bike shops admit this to me. For the bike industry, it's a very profitable marketing plan...for years to come!
Why does a frame manufacturer offer different warranties on different frame materials?
Your words sum it up; ""I think the jury is still out on the long term durability of CF. Carbon's propensity for failing without warning is what concerns me.""
"
Sun, 03/07/2004 - 4:57pm
#18
Carbon Seatpost
Today in the Spring Series, a teammate of mine was riding towards the front when, at 25+ mph, his carbon Record seatpost, simply and without warning, snapped off at the clamp. Seat and seatpost rattled around the pack without further damage. Methinks no more carbon seatposts for him, or likely anyone else who saw it happen.
Thu, 03/04/2004 - 2:52pm
#19
I put a pair of Reynolds carbon fiber forks on my bike this past summer, after having ridden with the stock aluminum forks for two years. The carbon forks made a HUGE difference in vibration absorption. I put a carbon fiber seat post on my bike this past fall after my aluminum seat post clamp snapped in half while cresting heartbreak hill in Central Park. I immediately noticed a difference in ride quality with it, although was not a tremendous difference.
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 5:50am
#20
Again...
Placebo Effect!
2 psi less in your tires would make a bigger difference than all the carbon bits on the market combined.
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 7:23am
#21
If you like CF, you'll LOVE Zertz
Fri, 03/05/2004 - 10:17am
#22
Too Heavy (nm)
