Does anyone know what average speed, Lance Armstrong was able to maintain on the ascent portion only of the mountain stages in the TDF?
In particular the Alpe D' Huez.
Average speed on the ascent
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 2:04pm
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 3:36pm
#1
LA Speed
If you assume it takes Lance about 40 minutes to finish the full 14.3 KM of the Alpe d'Huez climb, this equates to an average speed of roughly 13 mph for the climb. The early part is somewhat flat, so on the real climbing parts LA would be doing around 12.5 mph.
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 4:33pm
#2
LA Speed
Lance did the alpe d'huez in 38:01 in 2001, so his average speed was 13.5 mph. 13.5 mph for almost 9 miles on a 8% grade after having raced over 100 miles.
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 5:08pm
#3
only the late great pantani climbed alpe d'huez faster...
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 7:22pm
#4
Good Link
"Don;
Good link. Too bad it does not include all the best times, not just the winning times. In 1997, Ullrich finished only 47 seconds behind Pantani, with a time of 38'22"", the fifth best ever Alpe d'Huez time. Virenque was 40 seconds behind Ullrich, with a time of 39'02"", for what would be the sixth best time ever."
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 5:54pm
#5
I used 2003 Time
"Should have documented my calculations better:
LA 2003 Time - 41 minutes, 18 seconds (2'12"" behind Mayo)
This equates to an overall speed of 12.92 mph for 8.89 miles.
Since the first Km is fairly flat, I assumed it would take 2 minutes (just a guess) leaving about 39.3 minutes to cover the 8.2 (approx) real climbing section, hence ""about 12.5 MPH."" Still fast!
"
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 10:43pm
#6
John is mistaken: the start is the steepest, not the flatest.
"Contrary to John's contention the start of l'Alpe d'Huez is ""fairly flat,"" even though it's now an aging recollection, my legs clearly recall from three times up it, the start of the climb is the steepest.
PAUSE
I just looked up a site to confirm this, and I can:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/2922/F/FA1.gif
Richard"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 7:15am
#7
Not to Dwell...
There is always a question as to where the climb actually begins. I have not been to Alpe d'Huez and various sites list various starting points. The 2004 TdF TT stage length is 15 KM (1.2 KM flat), and the official TdF site lists the climb at 13.8 KM, 7.9%. CyclingCols.com lists Alpe d'Huez at 14.3 KM, with the first 1/2 KM mostly flat (from the profile) and the first 1.3 KM averaging only 4.46%. I used estimates this in my calculations. I had to make some assumptions about the first KM, but it looks to me to average only 3%. The profile you provided is for he 13.8 KM length, is in agreement with the TdF site and shows the first 1/2 KM as a gradual grade of about 2%. I only wanted to provide an estimate of what LA would do on the real hard part of the climb and based upon his 2003 time and the above nuances notwithstanding, still support my estimate of 12.5 MPH.
On a side note, this year's TT stage will continue to provide interesting discussion material...
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 9:20am
#8
Where the Huez incline begins is the steepest part of the climb.
When you cross the highway from Bourg d'Oisans, there are some number of yards, maybe 100, that are literally flat and no one regards those as the start of the ascent. There is a flat, short gravel (or so it was) path to the left away from the climb where the climb starts. It is pretty much where that path intersects the climb that is regarded as the start of the climb. Said more simply, the climb starts where the incline starts. And where the incline starts is the steepest part of the climb.
Richard
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 9:46am
#9
I Agree (Sort of)
Richard;
This is what I was trying to get to. Forget about the gentle parts, where speed is higher...
Wed, 07/21/2004 - 6:51pm
#10
Average Speed
Lance's average speed for today's stage was 23.44km/h. That is the same as 14.5 mph. It's hard to say what the average speed was for the just the ascent (minues the 1.5k of flat leading out of Bourg d'Oisans because there is not split provided). Crazeeee!
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 7:08am
#11
wattage
The times up the Alp reflect a lot of factors out of the rider's control, like wind, temperature, and the racing up to the base of the climb. The rider's wattage is a better indicator of their acheivement. On Lance's terrific climb he averaged 500 watts per pedal stroke for those 38+ minutes. At over 7 watts/kilogram body weight that is a herculean sustained effort. My source is my memory of a Cycle Sport article analyzing his accomplishment.
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 4:15pm
#12
More on Power
"You are quite correct in that speed, even on a climb, is affected by wind, temperature and what you had to do to get there (to some degree). Power and relative power (power to weight ratio) is indeed the ultimate determination of the strong and is the only way to compare the efforts of the same individual on the same climb on different occasions. For example, it may be possible that Pantani's record time of 37'35"" was wind assisted more than his efforts of 38"" and 38'04"", thus less powerful. The same could be said of LA's 2001 vs. his 2003 effort, although the time difference is great enough to make this unlikely. A power meter would tell. Pros don't race often with them, but they certainly train with them and LA himself has quoted a power output of 495 when he set a record time of 30'47"" on the Madone climb.
Lance's power output on Alpe d'Huez is another matter. While certainly in the range of 500 watts (its not that much longer than Madone), this topic is hotly debated in several cycling power-specific forums with a range of 450-500 watts given, with 475 watts most likely. Not a major difference, but without knowing Lance's weight with all his equipment, wind speed, barometric pressure, humidity, it can only be estimated since a power meter was not used that day.
It is also postulated that Ullrich's time of 38'22"" in 1997 was the result of a higher absolute output than Lance and may be a true 500 watt effort, due to Ullrich's obvious extra mass. However, assuming environmental conditions where the same on the two different occasions, Lance would still have a slightly better relative power output, since his time is better. Ullrich's greater absolute power vs. Lance's greater relative power was clearly shown in the 2003 TdF.
I also remember reading an estimate that had Indurain at around 560 (yes) watts on the Mortirolo, but have not been able to find the article in several years. There have been estimates that Indurain, due to his inefficient position, sustained around 510 watts for one hour during his 1994 hour record attempt. His exact power is debated too, but generally accepted as the greatest ever sustained one hour power output.
If you really want to get into the details of this effort, http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/4/1522"
Wed, 07/21/2004 - 12:19pm
#13
do you remember our l'alpe d'huez bet? you lost. you owe me one dollar.
Wed, 07/21/2004 - 1:34pm
#14
From Fox News:
No one came close to Armstrong's performance Wednesday. Wearing black shoes, black socks and his coveted yellow jersey as overall leader, which he reclaimed Tuesday by winning the first stage in the Alps, the 32-year-old was dominant. Despite the steep climb, he ascended at an average speed of 23.43 kilometers an hour (14.52 mph).
Wed, 07/21/2004 - 6:42pm
#15
Speed on Huez: I'm not quite sure what this means.
"From cyclingnews.com
Armstrong's time over the 13.8 km of climbing (excluding the 1.7 km of flat at the start) was 37'36, one second slower than Marco Pantani's official record of 37'35 set in 1995, which is actually 36'50 when measured from the start of the climb over the same course that Armstrong was measured over.
++++++++++
In re-reading this thread, I see I asserted somemonths ago the opening meters were the steepest. In my receding recollection, they were; however, OLN showed a diagram that represented the opening incline as c. 10%, but with a later piece at 11%.
Did you notice two raunchy sentiments painted on the road?
""Grab them by the balls Lance.""
And:
""EPO Armstrong""
Richard"
Wed, 07/21/2004 - 9:36pm
#16
Road Paint
"It acutally said
""Rip Their Balls Off Lance""
I think it was ""Lance EPO"" going up the road.
there was also an ""fuc_ Lance"" but the camera de-scoped the k.
In a post race interview, Armstrong said ""that the Cutters were very complimentary of all the riders, but there were a bunch of German fans swearing and spitting at the riders.""
------------
Also, the time of 37:36 was from the first checkpoint to the end for 13.8 km, which supposedly was at the very bottom of the climb to the end. (but unable to determine if the beginning included the first 100 meters that have been debated in the 2003 posts)"
Thu, 07/22/2004 - 8:04am
#17
Time check
If one has a tape of the stage, it can be known for sure. Ullrich's split after the 1.5km flat section was 2:05 and Lance's was 6 seconds slower, if I remember correctly. These splits were definitely announced by Phil L.
