"Been hearing about a lot of people getting summonses in the Nyack area the last few weeks for helmet law violations, double pacelines and the like. Opinions seem to range from ""It's the police setting an example as the spring approaches"" to feelings of ouright harassment by cops angry at cyclists.
Wanted to pass on the news as I haven't been up north yet this year. Is it typical for the lawmen & women of Rockland (and Bergen) to ticket heavily this time of year? Should we be extra-vigilant on our travels up that way?"
Cops on the hunt
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 12:51pm
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 3:06pm
#1
Riding in Nyack
I've never heard of anyone being ticketed for a non-helmeted head but riding in a double paceline on Broadway is not looked upon kindly by the locals or local police. Also, hanging out in the middle of the street in front of the Runcible Spoon as though it was your driveway is sure to tic off Rockland's finest and their constituants. They do like to make examples of recalcitrant cyclists so be forwarned. Again, it's questionable how much they can actually do as far as summonses, etc. but who needs the aggravation of finding out.
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 3:43pm
#2
Likewise for Piermont
Watch out for the unmarked, white, American model sedan police car situated usually on the north end of the village. It's usually parked off the side of the road and not easily spotted until you are within its view.
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 6:18pm
#3
watch out for the bike cop
"over the years i've found that there is one cop in particular to watch out for on the river road between nyack and piermont. this one guy, who is usually on or near a parked bike, yells out to any passing cyclist without a helmet, ""where's your helmet?"". one time i yelled back something like, ""sorry, i forget it today.""
that cop's annoying, and he did pull a friend of mine over one day for not wearing a helmet (i had mine that day), but only threatened him and didn't write a summons. i did get nabbed for 2 tickets at 1 time by another cop on the same road. i had to cross the double yellow line to avoid a stopped and turning car, so the cop wrote me up for riding dangerously (when do i not?) and crossing the yellow line. i tried to be nice and respectful, but i guess i couldn't sway him.
anyway, i didn't want to pay the enormous penalty and didn't want to go to grandview for night traffic court, so i just sort of blew it off for a while. after receiving a notice in the mail that my driver's license would be suspended if i didn't respond, i called the court house. a nice clerk told me to write a check for 20 bucks and it'll be cleared up.
i don't know what the point of my story is, but just felt like responding.
"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 5:10am
#4
Yup, same guy
"When pulled over for a ""helmet violation"", I always put on my best mock astonished face and say something like, ""Excuse me, officer, but I'm obviously well over 14.""
At that point he goes into his tirade about how bike helmets are mandatory for all in Rockland, and if you want to ride here you'd better get one or the next time you'll be ticketed.
So, I ask him (them), politely of course, ""I'm really interested in this. Could you please cite the statute for me? I'd like to look it up and find out more.""
Invariably, don't know it exactly, don't have it handy, etc. But you can be sure it's there, and you can be fined for violating it.
Yeah...
"
Mon, 02/23/2004 - 11:11pm
#5
I saw them...
in action this Sunday on my way back from Nyack. I don't know why the riders were pulled over since I was moving along pretty quickly.
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 6:32am
#6
right turn on a red light
In Nyack, I got a ticket when I turned as a light was changing above me. The cop pulled me over and yelled for ten full minutes; he even yelled at passersby who wondered what all the fuss was about.
I wrote the police station's captain and said that although the officer was only doing his job to give me a ticket if I was in violation, I considered his attitude and behavior to be unprofessional and reflected badly on the police in general. About a week later, I got a call from the cop's superior who apologized and thanked me for bringing the matter to his attention.
Since then, I have learned that cyclists are NOT required to carry identification in New York State. Just remember, police everywhere (in the US, anyway) are under increasing pressure to collect revenues (the job they save may be their own), so I recommend observing traffic regulations within towns in the area.
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 7:21am
#7
Cops on prowl on 9w
"Friend and I were pulled over on Saturday on 9w just past traffic light at Sage Rd. The cop car had passed us earlier going 70+ in hot pursuit. While they were passing we heard ""Ride single file!!"" yelled through a megaphone.
When we came upon the cop stopped just after the light, we rolled slowly through the red light. We then got a 10 minute lecture on riding single file and going through a red light. He threatened us with tickets, tried to scare us with coma stories and increased insurance rates. We smiled and thanked him but were boiling inside as traffic sped past us well above the 40mph limit. He said ""riding two abreast is prohibited on state highways"". When my friend asked ""even where there's a wide shoulder up ahead?"", he responded with ""Haven't you seen those cars speeding down that road?"" Huh?
I haven't checked the laws on this yet but am curious.
In the end he didn't ticket us but succeeded in putting a damper on our plans for a friendly chat riding side-by-side on the wide shoulder of 9w.
and BTW, I have heard of folks getting tickets on River Road for riding helmetless AND crossing the yellow line.
"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 8:43am
#8
River Road
Riding on River Road, which is in a state park, it is the law to wear a helmet, as a policeman once informed me. A friend and I were riding there years ago, he was without a helmet. My friend was made to walk out because he wasn't wearing one. The cop followed us to make sure he didn't ride. Luckily we were not that far from 9W.
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 9:11am
#9
The History of Requiring Helmets on River Road
There was a time helmets were not required on River Road. As it happens, bikes were also not allowed on River Road for many/most hours of the week at that same time.
I think it was TA, and, in any event, Charlie Komanoff, who negotiated for cyclists, the result of which was we now have use of River Road throughout the week...but at the price of having to wear helmets and not being able to go up or down that wonderful, serpentine climb/descent at the end of Hudson Terrace.
Questions for the Day:
Why isn't the road surface (better) maintained? As part of your answer, factor in the fact the Palisades Interstate Police who patrol River Road on what has to be the easiest, lightest duty any cop could pull, seem to have ample money in the Palisades Interstate Park Commission's budget for new cars with pleasant frequency.
Why, historically, was the road ever closed to cyclists? Factor into your answer the primacy by the PIPC given to boaters loading and unloading their boats in the water and the scant auto traffic on the road.
Remember: papers must be neatly typed and on my desk in the morning.
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 10:27am
#10
More?
"OK, Professor, but what about the mult-speed requirement?
Having known a few un-helmeted folks who've gotten ticketed and forced to walk home in their cleats, I always wear a crash hat on River Road. But has anyone ever been busted for riding a fixed gear?
Also, how is ""protective helmet"" defined on PIP's books? The NYSDMV code for <14 cyclists clearly states that your helmet must be ANSI approved. If not clearly defined by the PIP, couldn't I argue that my cotton cap is a ""protective helmet"" as it shields my scalp from the sun?
Lastly, an observation. It seems that the PIP cops selectively target ""serious"" cyclists for violations. I've seen any number of, let's say ""less enthusiastic"" riders, in street clothes, cruising along undisturbed by the authorities. But if you're in lycra, on a racing bike, watch out! In fairness to this, however, I'd bet that a lot more of the latter are regularly lifted into ambulances, so maybe that's why."
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 8:56am
#11
single file?
Is it against the law to ride in double file along the highway? There is a sign in Piermont stating that there is a fine for riding double file - is this enforceable?
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 9:26am
#12
Local Speed Limits
"
When bombing down East Clinton or other local streets, checked that the car behind you isn’t a cop. I was coming down Churchill on Sat. and a black sedan was waiting to make a left in front of me. As I normally nod to thank drivers for waiting and not killing me, what I get back this time was a dirty look from the cop inside the unmarked car.
State Line – 55 mph no chance of breaking that. Does anybody know the speed limits of the local streets of Bergen County? I know a speeding ticket is a highly prized trophy for cyclists, but it’s like over a $100 US.
What’s the hand signal for ""Cops! Cheese It!""?
"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 9:55am
#13
NJ local speed limits
"Does anybody know the speed limits of the local streets of Bergen County?
It's 25mph for local urban roads and 35mph for rural roads.
I know a speeding ticket is a highly prized trophy for cyclists, but it’s like over a $100 US.
I tried all of last spring/summer/fall to get a speeding ticket in NJ. No such luck, yet. On the other hand, maybe I'm better off - one ticket in NJ and I bet I'm dropped from my auto coverage. :-()
Anyway...
Periodically the state troopers will set up a speed trap in the State park. They're behind the bushes. They also put up that ""Your Speed is.."" LED-like readout sign you commonly seen by many here from time to time heading back to the GWB in Fort Lee. I think they're pretty cool and quite accurate no less.
Anyway, on a good day, with fresh legs and help coming from a tailwind and drafting a car (or better yet a SUV, or FUV as JP likes to call 'em :) to get up to speed beforehand (think cutters in breaking away) I can get the speed up past 30mph. Not very long of course, but just enough to see my speed registered on the sign.
FWIW, it's the only time I incorporate ""interval training"" into my cycling routine....just in case you are wondering VC or his alias(es) ;-)"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 11:27am
#14
Law and Order
"All the stories above attest to the low crime rate in that area. The police force in North Jersey probably get pretty bored from harassing beer drinking high school kids. So NYC cyclists with shinny bikes make lucrative targets on Saturday mornings when the weather warms up.
Speaking of SUVs, did anybody hear about the person arrested last week on w77th St. for spray painting SUVs in the UWS of Manhattan? Apparently the detectives have been looking for him for a while. WINS reported last Thursday morning the man racked up 12 vehicles up to date, and he was caught literally ""RED"" handed–with red spray paint in the front basket of his BICYCLE!
A White male in his fifties, they mentioned his name but I forgot it. A Shy-someone of the NYCC maybe? (:-o)
"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 8:29pm
#15
red handed
the cop (captain, actually) that caught him was also on a bicycle.
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 6:27pm
#16
PETER HOCHSTEIN
"""Given the ability to comprehend danger that I’m seeing from you, and considering who I’ve seen you with, I should also remind you to wear a condom.""
<><><><>
OK Peter, you’ve just crossed a line by attacking a third party – my wife-to-be.
What has she done to you that you must drag her into this? Joking aside, I, we insist upon an apology. Jump on me all you like – I’m a big boy. Our sorties were half jocular. Your current comment, however, is libelous; you imply that my fiancée has a STD!! Prima facie libel! Fool! This is not a joke. Had I not sworn an oath to uphold the law, I’d insist upon and deal an old fashioned, if violent remedy. However, again, I am a peaceful sort – and remain so. But your defaming my Love has raised my dander.
As it is, you apologize publically forthwith or this is not over. I’m serious.
John"
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 3:43pm
#17
ticket for no helmet?
"i hate getting tickets as much as the next person, but, ummm, those who are riding without helmets might want to reconsider... i know it feels great to be ""free"" -- but, as one whose helmet rather than head has taken a couple of serious whacks, there's also a lot of good feeling in knowing you're taking care of yourself."
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 5:20pm
#18
Thank you, Andrea!
"Hallelujah, at last somebody on this thread is talking a little bit of sense!
This is supposed to be a bicycle club, not an idiot club. When 90 percent of all fatalities (according to an article I read in Cycling some years ago) are caused by head injuries, you have to be a complete moron not to wear a helmet on the open road -- or any road. Certainly on River Road with fast descents, potholes that can toss a rider off his bike, sharp turns that transmogrify oncoming cars into ambush vehicles, and other hazards, you have to be pre-brain-damaged not to wear a helmet.
Tell you what guys. If I'm on my bike and I see you lying on the road, helmetless, with your brains spread across the asphalt, I'm going to ride right through them and keep on going. Why should I let some jerk who wants to speed, and violate laws, and signal ""chickey...the cops!"" and go without the most basic form of safety equipment...why should I let him ruin my day by forcing me to stop and try to get him an ambulance? (I say ""him"" with some deliberation. Most of the women in the club seem too smart to join in this helmetless exercise in idiocy.)
Remember, I plan to ride through your brains with my front wheel, dude? Got that? And with any luck, maybe my back wheel, too. Hey, you're a macho type. Surely you can take a little cranial sqooshing."
Tue, 02/24/2004 - 6:56pm
#19
Boo you P Hochs
Insults, name-calling, sexism, quasi-statistical referencing, demagoguery, pandering to fears, supporting anti-cyclist “law-enforcement,” anti-choice – and then the “brains spread across the asphalt” thing.
What an eclectic post!
Sheesh, Peter, what’s next – drown a litter of kittens? I’m joking, as I trust – I hope – you are. But many a truth is said in jest. And thanks for the brains on the tires image! How does one conjure such barbarism? Do you just loathe riders on different levels than yourself?
Ride lots, JP
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 5:28am
#20
Hopefully, after a good night's sleep, you'll re-read your post, realize how foolish you're making yorself look, and retract it.
Provided you haven't slipped and cracked your head open in the shower this morning.
But hey, it's your karma - ride over my brains if it makes you feel better. Me, if I see anyone lying bleeding on the side of the road, helmet or not, cyclist or not, I'm gonna stop and help. Sorry if that displeases you, it was just how I was brought up.
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 7:07am
#21
Sigh!
Oh dear! We've come to the point where a soul can't use a bit of hyperbole on this message board without inflaming the masses.
*Of course* I was kidding when I said I'd ride right through your brains. Do you think I actually want your bloody nerve tissue gumming up my brake pads, gunking up my drive train, and leaving a red and gray stripe of splatter marks up the back of my jersey?
But I do have a serious point to make. Violating laws and common sense wins no friends for cyclists or pro-cycling legislation and can indeed ruin the day of other cyclists and passers-by -- who have to take charge of the mess you make when you're injured by your own deliberate flaunting of common sense, safety measures and highway rules.
We cyclists are justifiably infuriated when careless, or law-flaunting motorists injure, maim or kill cyclists. But the law cuts both ways. If the law needs changing, let's work to get it changed. Merely screwing around with law, safety and the cops can undo some of our hard-gained rights, like the right to bicycle on River Road at all.
Besides, if you go helmetless and get yourself killed, who would I have to exchange insults with on this board?
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 8:24am
#22
Nice backpedaling
"You call me, and others like me (who, btw, make up the vast, vast majority of the world's bicycling population) ""idiots"", ""morons"", and ""brain damaged"", and then try and dance away by claiming you were only engaging in a ""bit of hyperbole""?
Sorry, no sale.
Over & Out."
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 8:27am
#23
Boooo again caveat
“ … a soul can't use a bit of hyperbole on this message board without inflaming the masses.”
<><><><><>
A soul? OK, animus malus molestus.
A bit of hyperbole? A bit, a bit of going beyond excess?? How does one work a bit of too much?
Inflamed? Hardly. Neither I nor Cool Head, at least from what I read in Cool’s post. And please, never seek to inflame anyone.
The masses? Me? Cool Head? Unwashed too I suppose, your highness.
Just more insults Peter. WTF?
I suspected jest in your brains-on-the-asphalt post, but I still question the mind, the “soul” that thinks of seeing a fatal crash and not only riding away, but intentionally leaving tire tracks in the gore. What a horrible f***ing image to crawl from your mind. You betray yourself brother!
Now, my turn :-) Do you have sufficient gray matter to warrant a helmet? Maybe Bell makes a single-serving, prêt a porte helmet? Disposable, but remember to remove head! Can you do River Road at all? Maybe with a 22 chain plate and a 34 cog! In 1 hour, 35 minutes. Herculean Col de Femur! You definitely need a helmet when gravity gets you at 2 mph. Stop at the waterfall on the west side for an anti-bonk break? Woops, wrong side of the yellow lines – you’re busted! Do the police, your friends, also write tickets for going too slow? Remember to pump up the training wheels! Do you ever “tire” of the constant “On your left” echoing inside your helmet? Does it echo at night while you try to sleep? Is there a Doppler effect from the speed differential of all the other cyclists on the road roaring past you?
Funny, huh? No! Oh, just kidding. Hyper Ole! and such.
Ride lots, J
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 3:23pm
#24
Regarding the previous two posts
">>You call me, and others like me (who, btw, make up the vast, vast majority of the world's bicycling population) ""idiots"", ""morons"", and ""brain damaged"", and then try and dance away by claiming you were only engaging in a ""bit of hyperbole""?<<
The term hyperbole referred to riding through a pile of your brains on my bike after you crash without a helmet. I still think you’re an idiot for not using one. Fortunately, you’re not by any stretch of the imagination representative of the vast majority, at least not in this country. See for yourself. Just watch the bicycle traffic. Or maybe you’d better watch out for the automotive traffic.
>>I suspected jest in your brains-on-the-asphalt post, but I still question the mind, the “soul” that thinks of seeing a fatal crash and not only riding away, but intentionally leaving tire tracks in the gore. What a horrible f***ing image to crawl from your mind. You betray yourself brother!….. Do you have sufficient gray matter to warrant a helmet? Maybe Bell makes a single-serving, prêt a porte helmet? Disposable, but remember to remove head! Can you do River Road at all? Maybe with a 22 chain plate and a 34 cog! In 1 hour, 35 minutes. Herculean Col de Femur! You definitely need a helmet when gravity gets you at 2 mph. Stop at the waterfall on the west side for an anti-bonk break? Woops, wrong side of the yellow lines – you’re busted! Do the police, your friends, also write tickets for going too slow? Remember to pump up the training wheels!….” etc, etc, yada yadda yadda.<<
Excellent writing, but you’re all over the place. Are you putting me down for being a sadist, a murderer, or a 64-year-old wimp? Please clarify. And remember, the squashed brains you see on the road may be your own if you don’t wear a helmet. Given the ability to comprehend danger that I’m seeing from you, and considering who I’ve seen you with, I should also remind you to wear a condom."
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 6:30pm
#25
HOCHSTEIN
"""Given the ability to comprehend danger that I’m seeing from you, and considering who I’ve seen you with, I should also remind you to wear a condom.""
<><><><>
OK Peter, you’ve just crossed a line by attacking a third party – my wife-to-be.
What has she done to you that you must drag her into this? Joking aside, I insist upon an apology. Jump on me all you like – I’m a big boy. Our sorties were half jocular. Your current comment, however, is libelous; you imply that my fiancée has a STD!! Prima facie libel! Fool! This is not a joke. Had I not sworn an oath to uphold the law, I’d insist upon and deal an old fashioned, if violent remedy. However, again, I am a peaceful sort – and remain so. But your defaming my Love has raised my dander.
As it is, you apologize forthwith or this is not over. I’m serious.
"
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 7:17pm
#26
""" you imply that my fiancée has a STD!! """
"-are you sure that its ""SPD"" not ""STD"""
Wed, 02/25/2004 - 3:50pm
#27
Risk and tolerance...
I know several very skilled cyclist who do not wear helmets. They're a pleasure to ride with. Most were born in Europe and it was not customary to wear helmets when they learned to ride, so they never got into the habit. They've cycled for years without helmets, had a few spills and not mashed their mellons. They're adults and can make their own choices.
I have cycled with some helmet wearers that made me very uncomfortable. I'd rather not be in the same state when they're on the road.
Here's a tidbit to ponder: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RisklessSociety.html
