I'm considering getting these for this year. Has anyone had any problems with them. I remember alot of you guys were using these this summer. How did they workout?
Since they come in silver now they don't look quite as bad. :)
Thanks
Anyone have problems with Mavic Ksyrium?
Thu, 02/05/2004 - 9:01pm
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 5:37am
#1
Ksyrium Wheels
I have the 2001 SSC before Mavic starting doing the milling in silver. These are very strong wheels, relatively light and spin up very quickly. The bladed spokes impart a fairly stiff ride but stand up to just about anything the local roads throw up. The silver model SSC SL was introduced after the 2003 TdF. These are even lighter than the black and silver SSC SLs.
I can't speak for the lower end models of Ksyrium other than they are heavier.
Here are some links from vendors
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=CATEGORY_VIEW&CATEGORY.ID=267
http://www.racycles.com/eq/catalog/mavic_ksyrium_ssc_sl_tour_de_france_2...
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 5:56am
#2
Have the original iteration (aka the heavy ones, bought in 2000)--they are still in great shape; the bladed spokes deliver stiff, sometimes hard, but responsive ride as Steve says. They are strong and (at least for the older models) are satisfactory for the roads we usually ride (they are not fragile as sometimes I heard people perceive them). They require little if any truing outside of annual general tune-ups you'd do for your bike because of the radial configuration on 3 sides (2 front, left back). Good luck.
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 7:19am
#3
The Best!
I have owned a set of SSC and SSC SL -- neither set has ever been trued or serviced in any way. In my option, the SLs provide the best combination of efficiency and durability of any wheelset. Hint: get them online from Europe (Parker International) and you will save a bundle. Also, pick the cheapest shipping method (winter does not look like its ending soon). Otherwise, you will be paying for air freight which is expensive for wheels because the cost is based upon shipping container size as well as weight. The current price form Parker is 425 pounds per pair -- 785 dollars, plus you get the ZAT deduction of 15% = $667, plus shipping. Colorado Cyclist sells the set for 848 plus shipping.
Mon, 02/09/2004 - 11:47am
#4
Parker International
John:
Following up on your post, I checked out the Parker International website to get an idea of their pricing on other items. (I'm totally committed to my Ksyriums, and I've been totally committed to buying overseas since Rich Ramon turned me on to Prendas--who are not only cheaper but truly polite.) At Parker, it's not quite like ordering online (they apparently take phone and e-mail orders), but, more problematic, they state they can't provide service to customers in the US or Canada. I didn't push to see if they really mean it, but is that something new since you last used them?
Russ
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 9:22am
#5
French Wheels
I have the black SSC SL's which look great with my black bide and I agree with all the above except the suggestion that you get them mail order. In principle, I support my local bike shop; and in practicality, you are going to need a dealer and a savy technician if any difficulties develop. Mine developed a noise which was solved by the dealer. I have heard of other problems which were also solved by the dealer and the technician.
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 11:15am
#6
Ksyrium pros and cons
I support the support your local bike shop philosophy but in the case of the Ksyriums, the price difference between buying them locally and overseas can be quite substantial. As far as service goes, this should not be an issue, if it is, you're using the wrong shop. All Ksyriums carry a warrantee that should be honored by any Mavic dealer. Even out of warrantee any shop should fix any piece of equipment they carry whether it was purchased there or not.
As far as the wheels themselves go, I've used Ksyriums for 2 seasons and I have trouble noticing much of a difference between them and my Mavic Open Pros which are a fraction of the price. The Ksyriums are lighter so they probably help on hills, they are stronger so they may need less attention in terms of truing and of course, they look way cool - even the black ones. In theory they offer better acceleration but I think you'd have to be a pretty darn good sprinter to really notice the advantage. The down side (aside from purchase price) is that upkeep is more expensive and finding replacement spokes not as automatic as with conventional wheels. Also the spokes for the front and rear wheels are different and I believe on the rear wheel, the drive side spokes are different than the non-drive side making it even harder to find the right spoke in an emergency situation. If you are in the middle of nowhere and break a spoke - it does happen, even with Ksyriums - good luck finding any Ksyrium spokes let alone the exact one you need, and good luck finding someone to replace them.
My current theory is that if you do not ride competitively they really are not worth the vastly greater sum. Even if you do ride competitively, I question how much of an advantage they really offer.
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 5:04am
#7
Good points, Tom. Excel Sports or Colorado will build you up a custom set of open pros for around $350 (when I checked last year). Using custom spokes/spoking patterns these wheels will be durable and weigh less than Ksyriums, not to mention ease of repairs, and being able to ride home with a broken spoke. Also, contrary to popular belief, Ksyriums are not particularly aerodynamic. This is mostly due to the rim shape - the flat, 'shaved out' section on the SL's saves weight, but at the cost of aero. Seems strange to me, given the bladed spokes.
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 5:27am
#8
Practical concerns
"Some points to consider before throwing out Ksyrium option:
--replacement spokes are available from your retailer (whether online or brick and mortar)--I've carried a few (they differ depending on whether they are front/back and left/right) when I've traveled with my bike with the remotest possibility of ending up ""in the middle of nowhere"" (you have to decide for yourself--can I carry in my jersey pocket? is a friend with car or is a sag wagon close by ""in the unlikely event. . ."")
--the aggregate weight of my wheelset is purported to be more evenly distributed than a good number of other configs. available: front and back distribution is like 40/60 in terms of total gsm; whereas other wheelsets may be more like 30/70 or 20/80 or whatever, so overall weight would be ostensibly more evenly dist'd. over the bike.
These may/may not matter to the would-be purchaser; would I buy them again? probably not because for the 4K-6K miles I put in a year, and none racing, I'm sure I could shop for something cheaper and just as adequate. Am I out to replace them--no--been riding since 2000 with them and they show no sign of imminent failure. Are the ""what-ifs"" a real/practical concern for the would-be purchaser? Look at your own riding habits/routes/and willingness to risk to need to deal with spoke eventualities (how often does it happen to you on tradish wheels? are you heavy/light, etc.) and how ""bad do you want 'em?"""
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 7:16am
#9
An Example
Of the difference bettween a Ksyrium repair and a conventional wheel repair:
On the way back from Nyack, a spoke broke on my Ksyrium. It was an unusual situation, not indicitive of any weekness of the wheel itself. I managed to keep riding and rolled into my LBS to get it repaired. It took some time for them to examine every Ksyrium spoke they had in stock - front, rear right, rear left - until they determined that they didn't have the spoke I needed. Even if they did have it, they informed me, repairing it was a fairly big job, not something they could do while I waited.
Contrast that with:
The time I broke FOUR spokes when the person in front of me in a pace line all of a sudden pulled out of the line and his skewer got caught in my front wheel - ouch! Fortunately, his roadside repair prowess far exceeded his paceline etiquette and he managed to get my wheel ridable enough for me to make it the few miles to The Piermont Bicycle Connection. After 20 - 30 minutes I rolled out of Piermont and all the way back to the city. The wheel was toast but it got me home. If I'd been riding Ksyriums, it would have been either the thumb express or a one way ticket on Red & Tan.
I don't think this should be the determining factor in one's purchase of Ksyriums but it's definitely something to consider.
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 11:59am
#10
Online Purchases
I generally do the same, but sometimes online prices are too attractive to overlook. I had a similar concern when I bought my set, but the dollar was stronger against the pound, and I purchased the set from Parker at 60% of the domestic price, which is hard to resist. Perhaps for a net savings of under $200, I would have considered otherwise, but to some a $200 savings is still worth the risk.
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 5:37pm
#11
Cosmos for a workhorse performance
I debated between Ksyriums and the cheaper Cosmos when I rebuilt my bike last winter...decided the Cosmos would do fine for my Clydesdale build and lack o'speed. I'm real happy with 'em. I've had to do just two very minor tweaky trues of the back wheel over about 1000 miles. And I do feel better knowing I can get spokes anywhere.
Fri, 02/06/2004 - 7:58pm
#12
An alternative...
A few years ago I was building up a new bike and did some asking around. I heard that the Mavics were harsh- too rigid some said. I saw Velomax at the bike show and decided to get a pair. I've had no problems at all in 3 riding seasons. And they're very pretty.
They've also got a special deal: they're giving away Michelin tires, tubes and rim strips.
http://www.velomax.com
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 7:34am
#13
myth: harsh or stiff wheels
If you use the same bike, tire and tire pressure(!), you cannot honestly tell the difference between a Velomax, Mavic or any other wheel with respect to stiffness or harshness of ride. All well built wheels are (radially) stiff.
Turning at speed or radical, pedal stomping acceleration is another matter (e.g. lateral stiffeness), but how much of one's riding time is spent doing that?
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 7:24am
#14
warning: dissenting reply
The Mavic Ksyrium wheelset is very well made. I have ridden with many folk who are quite happy with them. I’m sure given their popularity many others think the same. However I think it is a purchase largely dictated by the right side of the brain – the creative side. Here’s why:
- Weight
- Aerodynamics
- Durability
The design considerations for a wheel are:
Durability is not to be confused with strength. All wheels that we ride are strong enough. If not, I reckon the message board would be riddled with posts for plastic surgeon recommendations.
Price is another consideration. Mavic Ksyriums falls short in any of the three categories especially when considering its price.
Weight You could have a wheel set build for less money, using conventional clincher rims, spokes and hubs than Mavic Ksyriums. Dave Thomas is one such wheel builder. Perhaps something less exotic like lacing a set of Open Pros rims to a set of Dura-Ace or Record hubs is just as light or close too it for like half the price. In all honesty I do not pay much attention to wheel weight.
The bigger consideration for me is Aerodynamics. From what I’ve read and experienced, a wheel’s aero-ness trumps weight when considering performance. Wind drag is a bigger issue that rotational weight for most riding/racing conditions. Sure an areo wheel that is very light is best, but you’re talking $$$. (If I’m not mistaken American Classic makes a wheelset that is more areo and lighter weight than the Ksyriums for a little less coin, too).
The biggest areo consideration for a (spoked) wheel is the rim profile. The deeper the rim’s profile, the more areo it is. The shape of the rim (where the spokes meet the rim) is important, too. The Ksyrium’s rim does not have a very deep profile and it’s shape is not optimal for wind cheating. Spoke count and shape matters, too, but much less so than the rim profile and perhaps just a bit more than the shape and size of the tire of choice (19s v. 23s) seated on the rim. Those rims with a deeper profile also tend to have fewer spokes. Lance’s time trial technician, John Cobb has quite a bit to say about such subject.
Durability is another big concern as other have mentioned. What hasn’t been discussed is that Mavic Ksyriums’s spokes are aluminum. This is a fine material for most bicycle parts, but in the case of spokes, steel is clearly preferred with respect to durability as aluminum alloy spokes have less strength and poorer fatigue resistance than steel spokes.
For a well built wheel, its spokes should last way longer than the rim enough so to be reused for another rim. As for Ksyriums, I’d speculate the opposite is true. I could very well be wrong about this. Ksyrium replacement spokes cost $5 a pop, no less if you can readily get your hands on them. They also require a special spoke wrench(es). Trivial points perhaps; I know of a quite a few who put a lot of trouble free miles on their Ksyriums.
---
Logically, price/performance/durability wise, Ksyriums are a poor choice for a wheel. No doubt - Black or silver - Mavic Ksyriums sure do look nice. I reckon this consideration is the biggest reason for their popularity.
On the other hand, giving it some more thought, Ksyriums are perfectly logical. As far as I’m concerned, if it makes one happy, then great. Really. Is that not why we ride bikes in the first place?
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 1:18pm
#15
Ksyriums are durable
"While I rarely post to performance threads, I will demur slightly with Peter's comments regarding the durablity of Ksyriums.
It would be great to have a formal study with a large pool of data to arrive with a Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) statistic for Ksyriums and non Ksyrium wheels. Then we could perform the cost benefit analysis. But such a study is not forthcoming (unless somebody could dig some up), so we are left with anecdotal evidence.
I have a pair of Ksyrium SSC's which I obtained used from a member who absolutely pushes his equipment to the limit. He had no problems with the set, and I have had no failures of these wheels. I noticed that they were a lot better to ride than my brand new Mavic CXP 21 wheel set.
Peter points out that repair of Ksyriums is more involved and costly than for normal spoked wheels. I say this factor is offset by repairs probably happen much less ofter than normal spoked wheels i.e. I suspect that the MTBF for Ksyriums is five times greater than for normal spoked wheels, but this is just a guess. The Steel vs. Aluminum arguement is not an issue -- the issue is MTBF. The aluminum is strong enough. If Ksyriums were not that reliable (durable), then they would not be so popular.
Credit Peter with his concluding sentence of durability: ""Trivial points perhaps; I know of a quite a few who put a lot of trouble free miles on their Ksyriums."" Surveying the comments posted so far (Feb 7), this would seem to be the case.
"
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 4:14pm
#16
misunderstood
"If Ksyriums were not that reliable (durable), then they would not be so popular.
I never questioned Ksyrium wheels being reliable. They are among many other choices for reliable wheelsets/wheels. Rather I'm questioning the rational for wanting them. Actually my contention is if they did not look so good, they would not be so popular.
How long the wheels will last before their written off is another issue, e.g. durability. Do you know anyone who has rebuilt a Ksyrium wheel reusing it spokes? Probably none. Point is with a properly built and ridden wheel, _steel_ spokes will outlast the lifetime of many rims, the weaker wheel component. That's not so for alumininum spokes is my contention. (Whether one chooses to reuse spokes for a new replacement rim or gets tired of looking at the same type/brand of wheel is another matter).
How many other wheels or wheelsets do you know of that use aluminum spokes? There's a good reason why aluminum makes an excellent choice for rim material, but not for spokes.
Radial lacing, which Ksyriums contain in part, increases spoke fatigue more so than non-radial lacing because they cannot transmit torque. Radial lacing also adds stress to the hub flange. If I'm not mistaken Shimano and Campy void warranties on their hubs if you lace them radially.
I'm far from being a wheel expert or most articulate explaining the finer details, but there is an entire (technical) book devoted to the subject, ""The Bicycle Wheel"", by Jobst Brandt. This is a mature subject. While the books publication predates Ksyriums, the back of the book contains a several load tests and computational analysis (an engineer's delight & above my head or interest). Damon Rinard has written quite a bit on the subject, freely available online, too."
Sat, 02/07/2004 - 11:51am
#17
New NYCC jersey owners have a Ksyrium. Also: Carry extra spokes.
The wheel photographed for the new NYCC jersey is a Ksyrium, chosen strictly for its spoke width in profile...then drawn thicker to show up even better. (Note to Vojtech: The bearing cover grafted onto it is Velomax.)
I urge riders (well, not racers riding in races) to tape extra spokes (2-3, incl. at least one sized for rear drive side) to their right chain stay where it also acts as a buffer against chain slap. (You may have a plastic strip in place to do that.)
(Ease of) On-the-road spoke replacement should be a leading consideration for those of us who are not racers in choosing a wheelset. What the hell does shaving scant seconds in an all-day ride for pleasure mean against being unable to put your wheel back in ridable condition if it gets damaged?
Mon, 02/09/2004 - 5:28am
#18
Kysriums
I have had my Kysriums SSC, Campy model, for 3 years. I have found them to be extremely stiff and durable. I found them to be too jarring on my steel frame, wanted to keep my teeth, and put them on an aluminum frame. No problems there. Extremely comfortable. I guess it is all up to your style of riding, your weight, and what type of frame you are putting them on.
Mon, 02/09/2004 - 12:24pm
#19
Try using tires!
"Keith wrote:
""I have found them to be extremely stiff and durable. I found them to be too jarring on my steel frame, wanted to keep my teeth, and put them on an aluminum frame.""
You're joking, right? The compliance of tires (even at 120 psi) is on the order or 100 times greater than the compliance of any properly built wheel. Are you one of those guys that can feel a pea underneath 10 mattresses?
What question do these ""boutique wheels"" answer? What problem do they solve, that a conventional wheel cannot?
Are they lighter? More aero? More durable? More maintainable? Repairable? Less expensive? Nope.
""Chainwheel"""
Mon, 02/09/2004 - 1:50pm
#20
answer
"Chainwheel wrote:
What question do these ""boutique wheels"" answer?
Answer: What can we do to boost sales?
Betcha Mavic's marketing dept. has a bigger payroll than their R&D dept."
Tue, 02/10/2004 - 4:32am
#21
Marketing
"""Betcha Mavic's marketing dept. has a bigger payroll than their R&D dept.""
That's right. Give 'em fancy graphics, and a sexy look. And charge a lot. There's no rational excuse for radial lacing, but it does look cool. And will the proprietary parts for those boutique wheels be available in two years? If not, you're SOL. Of course, trendy riders wouldn't be seen dead on anything more than two years old anyway. ;->
""Chainwheel""
"
Tue, 02/10/2004 - 11:35am
#24
I have found them to be extremely durable. Stiff they are, but that is subjective, and dependant on many factors. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you.
My wheelset has over 15,000 miles on them, and they have not needed servicing of any kind. They have remained true and spin as smooth as they were new.
Tue, 02/10/2004 - 12:01pm
#25
"> You're joking, right? The compliance of tires
>(even at 120 psi) is on the order of 100 times greater
> than the >compliance of any properly built wheel.
Shhhh. Let's not get into this again. God forbid I find out that the Zertz inserts in my Specialized fork or the swoopy ""S-stays"" on my Merlin don't actually ""increase vertical compliance"" or somesuch marketing nonsense.
Then I might just have to buy a bike that had reasonable length chainstays and could properly fit 28-622 tires.
And what's cool and new about that?
Cheers,
Little Big Chainwheel
"
Tue, 02/10/2004 - 1:35pm
#26
Hey Chainwheel,
Please don't preach what your gospel. You ride what you like and I'll ride what I like. I'm 141 lbs.. What feels more or less compliant to me, certainly might not be feel the same for someone who is heavier or lighter, forgoing the compliance of any tire at any psi.
I'm just posting what I know from my experience, trying to add an opinion to a clubmates question.
Cheers,
Keith
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 5:51am
#27
An Experiment
"Keith wrote:
""I'm just posting what I know from my experience, trying to add an opinion to a clubmates question.""
Well, I'm glad you're happy with your Ksyriums (where'd they get that name from anyway?).
But you know what they say about opinions. So let's try an experiment:
Pump up your tires to your preferred pressure. Now press down hard on the tire with your thumb and see how many millimeters it deforms. Then remove the tire and press down on the rim with your thumb. Does it deform at all? I doubt it.
My point is that when riding, the ""give"" in the tire is at least an order of magnitude greater than the ""give"" in the wheel. Wheels are supposed to be stiff, and any well built wheel is. But tires are what determine how smooth or harsh the ride is.
""Chainwheel""
"
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 6:42am
#28
"The vertical deflection of a properly built and tensioned bicycle wheel is approximately 0.001"" to 0.003"". (As measured in a study by Damon Rinard.)
Any difference between two wheelsets must therefore be less than 0.002"" and more likely on the order of 0.0001"" to 0.0003"". Compare that to the vertical deflection of your tires, saddle, socks, etc.
Some wheels may well be conceived of as being more comfortable or quicker than others, but vertical compliance (properly radial stiffness) isn't the reason.
Cheers,
LBC
PS: I do think Ksyriums look cool, and that may be reason enough to buy them."
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 7:39am
#29
Chainwheel
What makes you so angry about another person's opinion? Thank god this isn't politics. There are as many opinions and experiences out there as there are bikes and bike riders.
Take a deep breath and relax.........
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 9:25am
#30
Who's Angry?
"What did I say that indicated anger? The purpose of the board is to encourage discussion, a give and take. I may disagree with some of your assertions, but there was no ill will intended.
When technical issues are being discussed, it's not impolite to challenge what someone has said. You seem unwilling to engage in discussion. Simply saying ""I feel this"" or ""I think that"" means little if you can't back it up with some kind of logical reasoning.
""Chainwheel"""
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 9:21am
#34
Stop the Presses
"The ultimate, from the ultimate bicycle marketers. Cannondale will being selling its sweet new carbon-aluminum road bike, the Six13. Complete with Mavic Ksyrium SSL wheels! Take a look here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/news/feb11
Available in April, just in time for your tax refund; if it was not for the onerous AMT, I would place my order tomorrow..."
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 10:14am
#35
Oh, THAT'S attractive...
The Ultimate, huh?
Until '05 anyway, which is probably about as long as it'll last.
Good thing Mario Confente never lived to see this...
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 11:20am
#36
Mario Confente? You must be old if you know Mario.
How many posters do? Keith?
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 7:20am
#37
Confente
Hey Herb,
I know of a beautiful Confente track bike, blue, in just your size at a shop in New Jersey!
Cheers,
Keith
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 8:23am
#38
Yeah, but...
...it is, most definitely, not for sale.
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 12:30pm
#39
The Ultimate
"Nah, for a mere $16,250 you can get the Pinarello Dogma Ego.
Why is it called the Ego? Their web site explains:
""Why is the frame called the Ego? The paint on the frame was designed to provide such mirror-like reflectivity that the rider could look down while riding and see himself, a la Narcissus peering into the river to admire his own image. Ego, I suppose, implies the intense sense of pride that comes with owning something so beautiful and rare - the prized bottle of vintage wine, the heirloom wristwatch - that it becomes priceless to its owner.""
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=154
""Chainwheel""
"
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 1:09pm
#40
uh-oh!
Do I need one of these (Piranello Dogma Ego) for the B-Sig? I don't want to be dropped.
Seems expensive though. Maybe I'll just take the fenders off the bike I have.
Peter Storey
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 1:40pm
#41
Peter, are you doing the B-sig? I've always enjoyed your posts on the BOB! It would be a pleasure to meet you!
- Christian
Fri, 02/13/2004 - 7:00am
#42
YES!!
YesYesYesYesYes.
And likewise.
Peter
Wed, 02/11/2004 - 5:20pm
#43
Not for Me
I only ride bikes made in the USA.
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 5:03am
#44
Good for you. For me it's about the bike, not where it came from. Come to think of it, maybe it's actually better to support builders from other countries - say, ones with struggling economies. We have enough money as it is (If only the price of gas would go up, we'd lose all these stupid SUV's in a hurry!!)
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 5:28am
#45
Please
"My Cannondale R5000si suits me perfectly well -- in fact, if I was to design a bike for myself, this would essentially be it.
Spare me the PC BS; Central Pennsylvania's economy is not exactly booming, and I doubt many living there would agree they have ""too much money."" The job you save here could one day be your own.
"
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 9:19am
#46
"I'm glad you and your bike are so happy together. However, I was responding to your post that said, simply, ""I only ride bikes made in the USA"".
And as for the economy, give me a break. I come from impoverished farm country myself, and in my 30+ years of working, I’ve never seen financial times as good as these, with the exception of 3-4 years ago.
Anyway, this is tiresome, I'm done.
"
Fri, 02/13/2004 - 6:39am
#47
impoverished farm country
"Which country? Impoverished countries remain remain so due to its perpetual leadership of corrupt, autocratic leaders. What credence does the word ""farm"" have? There's plenty of rich farm countries..USA, France, Japan, etc....
Purchasing products from such impoverished countries only benefits an elite few; filling those rich pockets with more cash. Better to direct ones attention to the problems with their pillaging and leadership than to tell someone where to spend their money."
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 6:39am
#48
Agreed.
Sachs, Weigle, Bayliss, Eisentraut...
I've loved bikes too much for too long to even consider some tig-welded, steroid-fed monstrosity.
Thu, 02/12/2004 - 7:18am
#49
A Real Beast
"I would hardly consider a sub 15-pound bike to be a ""monstrosity."" Its actually quite elegant, with an anodized flat black finish..."
Sat, 02/14/2004 - 12:12am
#50
Something else to say for a sub-15 lb. bike
John, above, speaks of his bike's elegance. There's something else that could be said for it: it's not race legal. At least by UCI/USAC standards.
Why would anyone want so light a bike? Surely it comes at the expense of durability in some area. And what is the overall effect of its lightness? A minute or two saved in the course of an all-day, pleasant, recreational ride?
...Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, still, don't you want to feel what you're riding is at least race legal?
...Richard asked rhetorically.
Oh, wait, is John one of those Mt. Wash. climbers? If so, I hereby tender my retraction.
