Bulletin Delivery

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Anonymous's picture

The October NYCC Bulletin!

Sincere thanks to all who made this happen.

Anonymous's picture
Rich Stokes (not verified)
download it!

why not cancel the home mailing and just download it a week earlier???

Anonymous's picture
don montalvo (not verified)
Re: Download it!

don't you get both if you choose to get paper?


Anonymous's picture
Banana Guy (not verified)
Only if your network settings allow downloads.

Anyway, Thanks to all!

Anonymous's picture
Chaim Caron (not verified)
I like the paper

You can't read the electronic version in the bathroom. You can't lie down on the couch on your back and read the electronic version. Etc.

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

Forgive me Chaim, but do you have a printer? (insert sarcastic emoticon) Do you have sufficient other paper products in your water closet to maintain godliness? (Id.) I assume YES. Why, then, do you need a delivered, printed bulletin?

I suppose we should be up in arms that hay is no longer readily available for our horses. Coal for our furnaces. Leeches for health.

While I understand the allure of cuddling up with a good book, a few pages of a monthly bicycle bulletin is more efficiently delivery electronically. It’s progress.

Printing the bulletin is a waste in so many ways … not the least of which is all the hours and effort put into debating both sides of this dead duck.

Let’s ride!

So let it be written … so let it be done!

Anonymous's picture
David Hallerman (not verified)
Electronic = Paper

"I find it odd that people differentiate between the ""electronic"" version of the club bulletin and the paper version.

Since the ""electronic"" version is a PDF file, you can easily print it out on paper -- and then carry it with you to any bathroom in the known world. And the quality of that PDF printout is, I'd say, at least 90% of the standard printed one.

So, why do people contrast the two formats, since they can be the same?

David, who would still keep the traditional mailed bulletin for those club members who don't have online access or have only slow online access or who simply cannot deal with printing out the PDF version

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
Different Strokes

First, there are still a number of members who do not own or use computers. There are probably others whose computers do not have the power or memory to display a pdf file. Do we chide those members and treat them like outcasts? I would hope not. I would hope we would try as best we can to accomodate them. Then I would imagine many members may not have a printer that is capable of printing out the bulletin as cleanly and clearly as it is done by a professional printing firm. And for those of us that do have more sophisticated hardware, printing documents like the bulletin eats ink cartridges, something I'd rather avoid. Last, the majority of work for the editor goes into creating the PDF file. The demands on club members are the same for electronic delivery and print delivery with the exception of addressing and mailing the printed copies so why not offer both? We now have a cadre of volunteers who are willing to spend time applying mailing labels and taking the finished bulletins to the post office. If members are willing to volunteer their time for such an endeavor, I would submit they find the printed bulletin important.

I would hope that we can all agree that different people prefer different things and that calling people names because they prefer something different than what you might prefer is unhelpful and counter productive. This is a quality of life issue. For some, progress may equal quality. For others, quality may be the satisfaction of opening one's mailbox on the first of the month (or therabouts) and finding the NYCC bulletin. Neither preference is correct, neither deserves derision.

Anonymous's picture
don montalvo (not verified)
minimum system requirements for acrobat reader

"i feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have the minimum 32m of ram to run the latest version of acrobat reader. i don't think it's possible to purchase a computer today that doesn't come with a minimum of 128m or 256m of ram. the minimum requirement applies to pc and mac.

ps, did any of those who want to continue to receive the printed bulletin sign up for the mailing party?



Anonymous's picture
robert (not verified)
"""fight night"" at the NYCC"

"Much as I enjoy all the verbal boxing that happens on the web site, (who needs tv soap operas), I suggest we ""kick it up a notch"". Lets buy some of those supersize boxing gloves, clear some space after dinner at the club meetings, and let some of the members have at it. We could do a double bill with the verbal mud slingers engaging in some real mud wrestling. Throw in some side betting and you have a meeting sure to attract big numbers."

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

"I'm betting - I bet 5 ;-) on any challenger, even odds. Of course, you must have digital HD premium cable plasma TV, at least 32"", in order to view any matches. Doesn't every body ?!?.

I up my bet to 6 ;-)"

Anonymous's picture
Michael (not verified)
Steel Cage Match

I'm up for any challenge... We can even get the giant Q-Tip they used in American Gladiator and try to knock each other off our bikes. I'll fight for Print or PDF who ever offers the best pay

Notice how they refer to it as a steel cage match, not an Aluminum or a Carbon Fiber cage match as the name implies strength.

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

While I'm taking all bets, my $$ is with YOU. I ride steel usually, so I might as well fight, bet, WIN steel. No more cycling - Gleason's Gym from now on.

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

"Tom, no one has proposed treating anyone like ""outcasts"" and no one has been ""calling people names.""

Like most topics, there is specific serious content sometimes stated in generally humorous manners. Some of us would like to keep the NYCC fun, even the harder parts of running NYCC. A humorous aside or quip just adds some color to discussions on this board.

Please get into the spirit of it. Or are we striving for a fight night at the races with no bulletin ;-) (Nudge nudge!!!!) Oh, and Etoian Shrdlu (sp??) - the curse! Shudder - maybe that's it.

Quites simply, electronic paper is progressive, printed paper regressive - at least as far as a monthly bicycle bulletin is concerned. If someone does not have a computer, that is most likely a choice. And there are consequences to any choice: here, no computer = no e-bulletin, no email, no Active.com, no on-line deals or savings, no surfing, no world-searchinng engines. If some one wants to ride old 10 speed, down-tube shifting heavy steel bicycles, great! But don't complain that you can't find parts. It's progress.

And - too much time on this topic. Dropping the printed-snail mailed, all-inclusice controversial version of the bulletin is my opinion.

I know, ... me ... and the bike a rode in (insert similey face emoticon). To work!!! Heidi-ho!"

Anonymous's picture
Tom Laskey (not verified)
I Can Play Too

But - people who prefer the paper bulletin have been called luddites and other names in this forum, maybe not by you JP but definitely by others and I don't think it's right.

Eliminating the paper bulletin altogether would effectively make members without computers outcasts as they would have no way of keeping abr**st of club activities. I don't think a choice about a computer should affect one's ability to participate in a cycling club.

It's true, you can't buy a computer today that can't support Acrobat Reader. I'm sure however, there are people who bought their computers at a time when the system requirements needed for Acrobat were available only on high-end systems if at all. If they haven't upgraded since, I don't think they should be penalized for not supporting the computer industry.

As for fight night, I'll up the ante. I'll take on all challengers, the losers have to run for a spot on the NYCC Board!!!

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

"Agreed. If you do not have a computer, or have an old one, you cannot get the e-bulletin. I imagine that the % of members in that situation is very low: .1% - ??

While their situation should not be an obstacle to cycling with NYCC, they (both of them ;-) can have some one give them a printed pdf copy. Libraries too? Rent a computer for 5 minutes and get it at Kinkos. There are just too many options for it to be an obstacle. Add to this the lure of progress, advancement, and I believe a wholly electronic bulletin is the way to go. Add again the cost, the debate, the time ... e-bulletin wins a unanimous decision. Heck, a first round knock-out.

""...the losers have to run for a spot on the NYCC Board!!!""

Now Tom, that's cruel and unusual punishment. I'd rather have my eye teeth pulled, or listen to John Tesh.

Anonymous's picture
el jefe (not verified)


I rarely post here, but I'm so tired of your silly arguments on this subject, and many others.

There is really little downside in terms of effort to produce the paper Bulletin. Converting to/from a pdf is relatively simple. Now that the club has finally tried using a mailing party, they realize there are 5 times as many volunteers as needed. Cost is a separate issue but your comments here do not deal with cost. If you argued that members who request a paper Bulletin should bear the cost of that Bulletin, I would agree. But to just eliminate the paper Bulletin is foolish.

You claim that 99% of membership has access to a computer with pdf capacity and a printer. I don't have the statistics for how many NYC residents have internet access at home but I'll bet it's less than 75%. Do you think it's higher for cyclists? Maybe. But it's not 99%. Please don't tell me and others to risk our jobs by printing the Bulletin at work. Unemployment in NYC is already near 8%. If those people have no computer at home is it really fair to ask them to go to an internet cafe or Kinko's for the Bulletin. If I were in that situation, the nearest Kinko's is over 20 minutes away. The public library near me has a 5 page limit on printing. The internet cafe charges $1.00 per page. I might pay $10 or so a year for a printed Bulletin if there was that option, but the Kinko's and internet cafe options run $12 to $16 per month.

If you'd like to see how many members really want a paper Bulletin, why don't we use another, similar organization as a case study. The CRCA (another NYC cyling group -- how much closer can we get?), with its 450+ members, gives everyone complete access to its full newsletter (www.crca.net, click on news). Any member who wants a printed version of the newsletter pays an additional $15 per year. Over 25% of the CRCA's membership has paid that fee. I don't see why the NYCC should see substantially different results.

If all that weren't enough to sway you that there are valid reasons for maintaining a printed Bulletin, how about this -- it's what members want.


Anonymous's picture
Herb Dershowitz (not verified)


Anonymous's picture
rob (a former editor) kohn (not verified)


Anonymous's picture
Geo Carl Kaplan (not verified)
el jefe's post

Kudos and huzzahs for a breath of sanity.

Anonymous's picture
Chris T (not verified)
Great minds think alike!


I concur with all your points -- GMTA.

How long did it take CRCA to institute a surcharge for those desiring a paper newsletter? I suspect it took less time than the 7+ months of ""discussion"" that this topic has taken in this forum."

Anonymous's picture
Carolyn (not verified)

What does our annual membership fee cover if not the cost of printing and mailing the bulletin, and the free lunch rides (which I could do without as easily as some could do without the paper bulletin)?

Anonymous's picture
Bill Vojtech (not verified)
I think...

It covers liability insurance for ride leaders and other odds and ends.

Anonymous's picture
don montalvo (not verified)
i have a better idea...

"...the loser should print+deliver a paper bulletin to each member who wants one.

(after he/she recovers from michael's giant q-tip pounding!)


""...the losers have to run for a spot on the NYCC Board!!!""

Now Tom, that's cruel and unusual punishment.

Anonymous's picture
linda (not verified)
Re: Luddites

"I'm the one who used the word Luddite. Its not pejorative...it just refers to people who resist change. It wasn't meant as an insult, just an observation.

Main Entry: Ludd·ite
Pronunciation: 'l&-""dIt
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from Ned Ludd, 18th century Leicestershire workman who destroyed machinery
Date: 1811
: one of a group of early 19th century English workmen destroying laborsaving machinery as a protest; broadly : one who is opposed to especially technological change.

The suggestion, that people who want the printed bulletin mailed to them should pay extra for it, is an excellent one.

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)
VOGEL, et al. ...

... Vogel, Dershowitz and Kohn. Blah blah me all you want. Call my position silly - excellent technique to back your position. BTW, Jeff, are you mad at me because of my hammering those times I Nyacked with you ;-)

My point is - too much time on a stale topic. We should all get a home computer. Don't get fired.

25% of NYCC has no computer access? My condolences to those who are horse-drawn and coal-fired. CRCA = NYCC, demographically? I have no stats. Show me yours! On second thought ..., I may go blind ;-)

Better yet, either take a poll/vote (by computer, haha) and see who wants what. Print and mail the darn thing - or pdf it! Or both. BUT GET IT OVER WITH. It's getting mundanely boring. Remember, it's supposed to be fun - at least the Kissena Elites tell me so! Silly, huh!

Anonymous's picture
JP (not verified)

I forgot to mention you both ... GMNTA ;-)

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